Best/Biggest 30 cal

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IanP
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#46 Postby IanP » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:05 pm

Brad Y wrote:http://www.dcra.ca/2013%20docs/DCRA%20Rule%20Book%202013.pdf

Rule 11.21 and its associated annex A

Wont be a problem for 308 as it wont exceed the velocity limit for that amount of BC I wouldnt think.

I found this info after reading an article on accurateshooter.com forum with Jerry Teo (mysticplayer) discussing it.

Not trying to draw away from the fact that 30 cal magnums are going to be a large part of the upcoming f class scene, but for those who are going to look at nominating its worth knowing now instead of getting to Canada with 300WSM's and having to start from scratch there.


Brad, those rules are for Canadian domestic competitions same as our NRAA or the NRA that the USA domestic shooters use.

I say again, the F-Class World Championships are shot under ICFRA F-Class rules, end of story!

http://icfra.com/page4.htm

Ian

F2.2. An ‘F’ Class Open (F/O) rifle may be of any calibre up to and including 8mm and the
overall weight must not exceed 10kg including all attachments (such as, but not limited to,
its sights and bipod, if any). NB: An ‘attachment’ is defined as including any external object
(other than the competitor, his sling (if any) and his apparel) which recoils (or partially
recoils) with the rifle, or which is clamped, magnetically or viscously held, or in any other
way joined to the rifle for each shot, or which even slightly rises with the rifle when
vertically lifting the latter from its rest(s).

Brad Y
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Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:21 pm

#47 Postby Brad Y » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:10 pm

But why would the DCRA (edit sorry- Range) impose a limit on BC vs velocity to general shooting and then relax it? Jerry is on the Canadian team I believe and he brought this up himself so Im rather inclined to believe him... For the record Im talking for FO here, F/TR a 308 wouldnt break that limit. But a 300WM with 230 bergers will.

If the long term goal is to participate at the next Worlds in Connaught, ON Canada, you may want to review the limitations the RANGE will put on your rifle ballistics.

Unless things change (highly unlikely given this is a DND range), caps on high BC bullets moving out fast will negate the use of some boomers.

See DCRA rules Annex A (Rule 11.21) pg 57. Use PDF page number #67 when searching.

G1 BC MV
0.700 2970fps
0.750 2825fps - pretty darn close to what Berger lists for the 230gr hybrid BC so.....
0.800 2705fps

This has nothing to do with the F Class rules and everything to do with the Military Range.

See you in Raton...

Jerry

IanP
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Location: Adelaide

#48 Postby IanP » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:27 pm

If Canada want to host a FCWC competition then they need to find a range that permits the ICFRA implementation of the rules!

If they cant do that then they cant host the competition!

Jerry is simply voicing his opinion and you are perpetuating nothing more than a rumor. There is nothing more I can say on the matter but feel free to start another thread on the subject if you desire. Its off topic and based on nothing more than one persons opinion!

Ian

Brad Y
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#49 Postby Brad Y » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:09 pm

Think of it what you will. Canadian military wont change their rules just for civilians no matter what country they come from I expect. Not worth the extra thread. Still wont stop me doing my best to try represent Aus in Canada 2017.

Sorry to the author of the post for the hijack.

bsouthernau
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#50 Postby bsouthernau » Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:32 am

Rather than arguing among ourselves wouldn't it make more sense to contact the promoting body and ask THEM. They MAY be able to implement a system similar to Stickledown whereby shooters using a M.E. above the threshold are required to prove their 1000yd zero by putting a string of shots inside the box on the zero target.

But that's just speculation on MY part - get it from the horse's mouth!

Barry

Tim N
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Location: Branxton NSW

#51 Postby Tim N » Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:24 am

If you wanted to try the 215/230 bergers would a 30/06 imp be the biggest case in 308 face to do it? If so does anyone have experience with it?

IanP
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Location: Adelaide

#52 Postby IanP » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:20 pm

Tim N wrote:If you wanted to try the 215/230 bergers would a 30/06 imp be the biggest case in 308 face to do it? If so does anyone have experience with it?


Tim, the 308W displaced the 30/06 but I looked up my Berger reloading manual and found they have loads listed for the 30/06 and 230gr hybrid bullets. The hottest load they have listed gets to 2474fps from a 1:10T, 26" barrel. If we add 20fps for every inch added to the barrel and you use a 32" barrel then you may reach 2594fps.

Lets put this in perspective as the 230gr hybrid launched and 2600fps shoots 9" inside a 6.5mm 140 Berger vld launched from a 6.5x47L at 2900fps at 1000 yards in a 10mph crosswind.

The 308W also has load data for the 230gr hybrids, again out of a 26" barrel with a maxload velocity of 2290fps. This would rise to 2410fps out of a 32" barrel.

If you were to shoot against someone using a 300WM (magnum bolt face) with the 230gr hybrids you place yourself at a 400fps disadvantage!!!!! That would be 12" less wind drift at 1000 yards in a 10 mph crosswind for the same bullet travelling at 3000fps.

Ian

bruce moulds
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#53 Postby bruce moulds » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:41 pm

tim,
the 30/06 or Ackley improved version is my guideline for max recoil I can shoot consistently and repeatedly.
the 7 mag comes under this heading, although as I get older I find that smaller is more shootable.
others like paul janzso can shoot bigger 30s well, so I could be an aberration. even he backed off on the 30 boo boo.
I also shoot a 40 cal bpcr better than a 45.
the 30/06 is a wonderfully accurate cartridge, somewhat derided post 308, but just has that bit more grunt for heavy bullets. there is good brass available, and it is very flexible as to powder choice. 2209 might be a good place to start.
the 9.3 x 62 mauser has the same boltface as 30/06, and holds a bit more powder, and could be necked down. the 6.5 x 65 rws will also fit that boltface, and can be easily necked up and improved if you so wish.
anything that uses rws brass is possibly a better option than lapua only.
the 280 Remington case also holds a little more powder than the 30/06, and improved is a wonderful vehicle.
match rifle shooters, limited to 308 win, consider that the 30/06 would be the ideal boiler room for their launching of heavy bullets.
if you get to know your cartridge's wind deflection it is not necessarily a bad thing to have a shootable one.
food for thought,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880
http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

DaveMc
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Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:33 pm

#54 Postby DaveMc » Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:43 am

I was just looking through the online RWS catalogue and noticed they sell 300WSm loaded ammo now. Hopefully this means 300WSM brass will be available in the future. If not they already make 7mm rem mag and 300 win mag brass- exciting times

http://rws-munition.de/en/hunting/servi ... s-etc.html

IanP
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Location: Adelaide

#55 Postby IanP » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:35 am

DaveMc wrote:I was just looking through the online RWS catalogue and noticed they sell 300WSm loaded ammo now. Hopefully this means 300WSM brass will be available in the future. If not they already make 7mm rem mag and 300 win mag brass- exciting times

http://rws-munition.de/en/hunting/servi ... s-etc.html


Check this out Dave! http://www.nosler.com/brass/

Ian

macguru
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Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:49 am

#56 Postby macguru » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:29 am

A remington long action, or similar, shooting lapua 30-06 brass, 2209 and 230 bergers (or 210/215) through a 30 inch 1:10 heavy target barrel would probably be a good thing ...

westernsky
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 8:24 pm
Location: toodyay WA

#57 Postby westernsky » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:18 pm

hi guys, i thought id weigh in as im currently shooting a heavy 30 over here in the west

i have a 300rum which im hopefully about to rebarrel so i can run the berger 230's. up until now ive been using the hornady 225's but theyve stopped production for the foreseable future.

anyway, while she does kick, ive built her up to be about 8.5kgs dressed with scope and bipod. my range allows me to use my brake so that brings it back down to the realm of my 243 recoil.

accuracy so far has been better than expected, and while its no world beater, ive got enough x's to be satisfied.
so with a new barrel and target action, coupled with the heavy bergers moving fast it should be something special, watch this space...

happy shooting
brenton
theres no such thing as too many rifles!

Norm
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Location: Gippsland, Victoria

#58 Postby Norm » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:08 pm

Brenton,

I think if the powers that be let more people shoot with braked rifles, then there would be a lot more new shooters joining the ranks.

They could shoot before or after the other shooters to avoid any obvious conflicts with shooters using unbraked rifles. Not an issue!

Its good to see your club has an open mind.

bruce moulds
Posts: 2900
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

#59 Postby bruce moulds » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:32 pm

brenton,
we had better not blink while watching this space, or your barrel might go south.
norm,
while brakes might attract new shooters, they might get rid of some old ones if on the mound at the same time.
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

westernsky
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 8:24 pm
Location: toodyay WA

#60 Postby westernsky » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:59 pm

hey i totally agree, after seeing the amount of dirt that gets "displaced" after firing two ranges i can see how it may be annoying. on the other hand, i always shoot on the other end of the mound to anyone else, and everyone always wears hearing protection (like they should be).
it has been commented that it is alot noiser than all the other rifles, although no one so far has said that its too much to deal with.
different strokes for different blokes i reckon. as long as we can all find some middle ground, we will all be better off!
(maybe theyre happy that im building a new mound everytime i visit!!)

happy shooting
brenton
theres no such thing as too many rifles!


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