March scopes

[DannyS]

Hi Dave, thanks for all your info, much appreciated. I currently have a number of Sightrons, series 11 6-24, then a series 111 6-24, a 8-32 and a 10-60. I have found all to be great scopes don't any real problems.

It was just that I had been looking in my man cave at some of the stuff I don't use and thought mmm I could buy a March scope,,if its worth it.

The weight of the 8-80 is about the same as my sightron 10-60, which is a consideration.

Will have a read up on the 10-60 March.

Thanks again for the info and thanks everyone else re your comments. Must admit I wish they had a longer guarantee.

Cheers
Danny

[bruce moulds]

danny,
3 sightrons per march/nightforce.
save the money to spend on a nesika model k at 1.47" diameter, and a jewell on it.
keep safe,
bruce.

[DaveMc]

Bruce - some people like actions - some like scopes

We call it glass greed and it is very addictive!

[bsouthernau]

try reading 4 point type at 60 cm with bare eyes

Fair go Dave - I can't read ANYTHING at 60cm with bare eyes!!!

Thanks for your reply. I was very heartened by your and Alan's comments on the 10-50 Sightron as I have one of these on order to complement my pair of Leupold 8.5-25s. These were pretty much ideal for my earlier purposes - I'm one of those who consider 25 power enough and they have enough elevation adjustment to go from 300 to 1500 with some to spare - but now that I'm making a bit of a foray into F Class I find the 1/4 moa elevation adjustments a bit coarse.

Barry

[bruce moulds]

leupold really needs to bring out a 1/8 click, 60 moa elevation adjustment, up to 36 power scope, x50 0r 56, specially for fclass.
the market would probably bear it now.
keep safe,
bruce.

[DannyS]

Bruce, I have a Stolle Panda F Class in a McMillan F class stock, a. 308 barrel and a 6brbarrel, I don't get time to use my other gear, so I was thinking about upgrading my scope.

Barry, the Sightron 10-50 scope is a very good scope, I'm very happy with mine, but maybe and its a big maybe, could I be even happier with something else, I don't know.

Cheers
Danny

[bruce moulds]

danny,
if i were a betting man, i would nearly put money on the gun fairy heading your way.
if you get it in march, that would be quite touching.
keep safe,
bruce.

[AlanF]

Bruce - some people like actions - some like scopes

We call it glass greed and it is very addictive!

I'll admit to being a barrel-aholic . There's something special about getting a new barrel - it could be your one in a life-time hummer.

[ecomeat]

Danny,
If a precise aim point is important, you would (will !) love the March.
This is my view at 50 x, through a March 5-50 x 56 with the MTR 2 reticle.
The flouro green dots are 0.9" in diameter.
Ignore the "not so clear" target........cheap camera, poor photographer with no skills, and bad mirage anyway.......but it will give you an idea of what the March MTR2 reticle is like to use at 50 power at 300 yards.
Tony


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[BRT]

Warranty may be a consideration for you, 5 years on the March, versus lifetime on a Nightforce or Leupold for mechanical failure and workmanship.

Sounds like a buy once deal with a Nightforce or Leupold and You find yourself on your own with the March after 5 years, as with anything mechanical it will probably fail at some stage, personally I'd prefer the confidence of never having to buy again when forking out big money.

I would just like to comment on Tom's post.
I can understand that many people may be concerned about the "only 5 year warranty on the March" but at the end of the day the owners of March scopes are not worried. Cause they know. Better to have a scope that should not ever need a warranty than possible have another type which may need it often.
I am finding now that most owners of March scopes are coming back to buy a second or third scope. Because they have learned to appreciate the value of their instrument.

DEON are a small custom manufacturing company in Japan. They are a specialist company building only March scopes. The reasons for the 5 year warranty is rather traditional Japanese for small to medium size businesses. In fact it is a recommendation by their Chamber of Commerce. I don't ever see it changing or the need to. Their form to date has been exceptional. They have repaired damaged scopes for very little cost if any. One F class shooter who had a so call "March scope failure" at the Mackay Queens a couple of years back actually had his scope tube bent as it turned out. Someone learnt something very heavy on the sunshade and the scope was forward mounted so that is a lot of leverage out there. It had 1mm of total runnout measured at the bell. I measured it and videod it to prove to the owner. DEON did a full dismantle and replaced the whole body and returned his scope to him. The Cost? $200 which was the material cost price of the body only.
Funny thing they didn't get much thanks from that owner. Probably still bitter that it was someone else's fault.

I realise that for people who have as No1 priority on their scope purchase check list being a scope which has a lifetime warranty will probably never buy a March Scope. I don't think it will change.


But I also often say its a funny thing about warranties. You can buy any brand of Korean made car these days with a 5 years unlimited K warranty but if you want a BMW or a Ferrari you get a 12 month warranty. Do these same people complain to BMW or Ferrari?

Also most of us who buy precision shooting outfits usually invest a lot of money in the whole system. Lets look at an example. You get yourself a Stolle Panda action, maybe a Broughton match barrel, Jewell trigger, Kelbly rings, MCMillian stock, top brand rear bag and Farley Coaxial front rest. Get a quality gunsmith to put all that together very carefully. You invest in reloading equipment to suit etc. Whats your investment? Maybe $6000 plus, without the scope. Right?
So did you get a warranty with all that? Did you even get an accuracy guarantee with that? Why is no-one screaming about this?

I know it may sound like trying to justify why only a 5 year warranty on the March and in the beginning when March first came out I started to worry about that too. I don't any more and have no need.

Annie and visited DEON in Japan at their invitation last October along with Jim Kelbly and his wife Cheryl. After seeing the demonstration of the complete assembly of one scope (an 8x-80x model), which took all day, and how every single component is hand assembled and hand lapped into place and then bonded together we know why nothing moves where it shouldn't move.

The point of difference with this particular product (March) is that every single piece is hand assembled and matched precisely. Not a few parts or the just the turret parts. Every single piece. Their best quality materials and worlds best designs that exceed all others are secondary to this actually in my opinion. They still have all the features and the quality materials but No1 on my list is that 100% hand built assembly and personal fit up. Just like a true precision instrument. Something to aim your Precision rifle with will need to be a precision instrument.
This is not say in any way that other brands of scopes are no good or that all will fail. that is not the case at all. They are just different. They are built different.
If these qualities (mentioned above) are something that is important to a scope owner then no other manufacturer or brand can match this. The only unfortunate side effect is the cost. The question is though, what is the real cost?
Sometimes a cheap scope on a top quality precision shooting outfit can actually in the end be very very expensive. Not only in dollars but in confidence.

Anything at all made by man or otherwise can have faults. That is why we have warranties. It would be usual though for any potential warranty issues to show up initially. DEON have told us their warranty return rate is very low. Less than 1/2 of 1%.
DEON tell us that of the scopes which have been returned to them for warranty inspection because the owners were sure that their scope was moving or changing point of impact etc, not one scope has had a proven mechanical problem or failure in that area.
They will test, they will disassemble every component and inspect, they reassemble to their same standard and then retest. They even now provide a report with photos. But still not one scope from any country of any model has had a mechanical fault that can or did cause point of aim shift. They do it and send back no charge within approx 3 weeks. This is also a bit better than 4+ months we are hearing about some other brands warranty or inspection repairs.

The number one important thing about any scope for a precision shooting rifle is not the optics. Everyone seems to focus on the optics but it is actually no2.
No1 is mechanical integrity and reliability and repeatability.
After that you can consider having good optics.
Then you have to very carefully mount your scope (any brand scope) and correctly adjust it and look after it.

If you think mounting a scope is like mounting the bullbar on the Landcruiser (just tighten her in shape mate) and leave your outfit out in the sun to cook off before you lay down to shoot etc then you aint gunna do much 'precision shooting' very often IMO. No matter what brand of scope.

In my opinion and experience one of the biggest single failures in a precision shooting outfit is people not understanding how scopes work, how to correctly adjust them, understand what mirage is and how to use it and how to look after everything in the system to ensure it keeps shooting good.

You may not want to take my opinion on the subject but regardless I can recommend a good book. Tony Boyers book called "The book of Rifle Accuracy" Chapter 10 in particular. It is all about scopes and installing them. Tony is a Leupold man. He is sponsored by them but he gives a very unbiased lesson in what is important and how to mount scopes and set them up. He beds all his scopes so the point of impact is where his point of aim is. Central for windage and even adjustment up as well as down for elevation. He also points out that when trying to diagnose a potential faulty scope actually just swapping to another scope (same brand or otherwise) very rarely actually proves anything like you think it does!!!
He should know. He has won more precision shooting matches than anyone on the planet.

Stuart Elliott

[DaveMc]

Bruce, I have a Stolle Panda F Class in a McMillan F class stock, a. 308 barrel and a 6brbarrel, I don't get time to use my other gear, so I was thinking about upgrading my scope.

Barry, the Sightron 10-50 scope is a very good scope, I'm very happy with mine, but maybe and its a big maybe, could I be even happier with something else, I don't know.

Cheers
Danny

Danny - I am 100% confident you will be happier than happy!

[macguru]

I have 2 sightron scopes, 8-32, one with 1/4 clicks, and one with 1/8 clicks on my open rifle. They are really excellent and can be landed for just over $800 in oz. However, i will say that the march has better colour contrast and under some conditions this will make a difference, such as trying to spot small spotting disks under heavy mirage (comparing them side by side)....

re the sightron....The mechanics are working fine but the clicks felt better on my leupold, unfortunately leupold scopes do not have enough magnification. I have not mentioned nightforce yet but there are plenty of others who will speak up for them !

cheers andrew

[dave]

stuart

shooters are consumers and is it not unreasonable for them to expect and receive appropriate warranty and service back up and support.

to outlay thousands of dollars for a scope in this day and age and not receive a lifetime warranty is not acceptable in my opinion.

forget the spin doctoring and the fact that you are selling these scopes and try to look at the situation from the position of a potential purchaser.

given the same scenario, wouldn't you also expect and demand a lifetime warranty if you were outlaying considerable amounts of your hard earned for one of these scopes?

if deon is going to sell and distribute their products on a world wide scale, why can’t they follow the same path as the many other japanese major exporters who have no trouble exporting/selling precision products with superb quality, unmatched reliability and warranties that equal or exceed products from other countries?

in relation to your comments on other shooting products and gunsmith services, is it not a fact that on more than one occasion, you have publicly bagged and let others know your dissatisfaction in regard to the quality, unreliability, supply and workmanship of these items?

have a nice day

PS - i would be surprised if ferrari and bmw owners have not complained about the limited warranty, reliability, high service costs and the build quality of their vehicles

dave goodridge

[bruce moulds]

stuart,
you mention european cars.
this might not have been a good comparison.
it is now considered that some korean models are now the best engineered in the world.
the dog and lemon guide specifically recommends against buying a car with the indicator stick on the left side.
keep safe,
bruce moulds.

[bruce moulds]

go on danny.
just do it!
keep safe,
bruce.
p.s.
get one where the eye relief doesn't change with the magnification.