Action stiffness

[Norm]

When looking at selecting an action for a 7-08AI, what is stiffer and would be a better option to hang a long heavey barrel off.
A short action or a long action?

[Brad Y]

Would say short. But also depends on what hardness the action material is and if its built as a repeater action or single shot.

Another option for you if you want a long heavy barrel- solves bedding issues is this one http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek075/

[ned kelly]

G'Day All,
in a rough laymans terms, stiffness is to do with the materials mechanical properties. However, more importantly the cross sectional area at any point along the length of an action (or consider a barrel before and after fluting).
That is if you slice through, say a loaf of bread and measure the cross section area, its consistent all the way across. Then you cut a hole right through the middle (imagine a bolt raceway) and there is less area AND material to support its own weight, and therefore the bread "slice" is not as stiff as before.
You then go and cut out holes for load port(s) and a hole for a trigger, then a magazine and your slice of bread is pretty flimsy compared to the original "slice".
The only way to "stiffen" it is to have thicker walls to make up for all the holes cut into it. Or figure out a way not to have as many holes or reduce the size of the holes.
If you can find a copy of "Benchrest Actions and Triggers" by Stuart Otteson it covers this subject nicely comparing different actions stiffness.
Also a long action when glued or well anchored will resist bending to a degree, but it's all relative. But as a rule of thumb any reduction of the cross section area reduces stiffness at that point. So consider dual port mag fed actions, there is NOT a lot of material between the back reciever ring and the front receiver ring, which is partly why Remingtons were being sleeved for BR shooting as an affordable and practical solution to all those cutouts in the action
Clear as mud?
Cheerio Ned

[bruce moulds]

norm,
in the real word, don't worry about it.
for almost any job, the difference, if any, is undetectable.
using vld bullets will make the difference undetectable.
we look at dual port actions and see a loss of accuracy, but dual ports do a lot of winning, not only where speed counts, but also on sheer accuracy.
the main benefit of sleeving a remington is not so much the stiffness that some suspect, but the big bedding area.
if you want a long action, go get one and live happily ever after.
still worried about stiffness? get a stiller python.
actually a well trued remington, properly bedded can win anything we want to win. i have seen them clean up stolles and barnards more than once, due to holding good vert.
the biggest thing b.r. actions have over a rem, is the length of thread to support the barrel. barnards have less, but seem to work.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Dave P]

norm,
in the real word, don't worry about it.
for almost any job, the difference, if any, is undetectable.
using vld bullets will make the difference undetectable.
we look at dual port actions and see a loss of accuracy, but dual ports do a lot of winning, not only where speed counts, but also on sheer accuracy.
the main benefit of sleeving a remington is not so much the stiffness that some suspect, but the big bedding area.
if you want a long action, go get one and live happily ever after.
still worried about stiffness? get a stiller python.
actually a well trued remington, properly bedded can win anything we want to win. i have seen them clean up stolles and barnards more than once, due to holding good vert.
the biggest thing b.r. actions have over a rem, is the length of thread to support the barrel. barnards have less, but seem to work.
keep safe,
bruce.

Not to nit pick but dual port actions are not less accurate and the biggest difference between a top line custom action and a Rem or Win or Savage etc etc is the custom actions are typically built to very tight tolerances with a bolt fit as close as .001" or less. Accuarcy in the rifle itself has far more to do with it being in line ie action, bore etc all running down a centreline which will allow you to fire a bullet straight from case to crown exit (its a bit more complex but that will do for an explanation)
I have never heard of an action that can hold good vertical ????? again thats a bit more complex and involves the centreline, load, technique etc but not just an action.
Yes the Rem will beat anything in a well built rifle but so will an omark, most matches are won and lost on wind than on rifle quality ie best gun still wont pick the changes for you.
The main advantage of a Rem trued and sleeved if your looking for a large bedding area and a bit more rigidity is that its generally far cheaper than a straight custom action.
Buy a Sleeved Rem a short action is fine but a long is too if thats your taste. Old BR guns can be had for around $2000 just re barel and your on your way.

ps VLD bullets will not make a rifle more accurate

[bruce moulds]

dave,
exactly what i said.
bruce.

[Norm]

So a short action will support a long heavey barrel just as well as a long action?
I was thinking that having the action screws further apart on a long action would give better support from the stock and in a way less deflection mid way along the action.

[ned kelly]

G'Day all,
I've seen Rem700 SA .223 repeater's hang a very long heavy barrel off the action and shoot competively, likewise i've seen a Rem600 hand a 21" ppc barrel of the action in a glue in and flog custom actions at SR BR.
In the end a properly built rifle will be a very capable rifle, however, all things being equal, a long single shot action ala Barnard, WILL be stiffer than any factory Rem700 and mechanically better able to hand a 30"+ barrel off it.
A Stolle may be even better. Especially if you factor in the amount of area the action has for bedding/glue-in to the stock.
In the end you get what you pay for quality products combined with a TOP quality gunsmith can make life that little bit easier.
What mother nature throws at you is for you to deal with!
Food for thought.
Cheerio Ned