260 Remington advice

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Seddo
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#16 Postby Seddo » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:27 pm

Mac,
Run the numbers and you will find a 123 going faster than a 140 could be better downrange.

I have started workign up loads for my 260 with 123's. I have a 6.5 Hill (shortened 260AI) i shoot 140gr NCC's in. As yo can see i am playing both sides utnil i can shoot them side by side.

I am using 2209 in both rifles.
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Seddo

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macguru
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#17 Postby macguru » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:13 pm

But what is less deflected by the wind ? A 123 gr at 2900, or a 140gr at 2750fps ??

If you know the drops does it really matter if its a bit slow ?

Andrew

DaveMc
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#18 Postby DaveMc » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:53 am

Andrew - you will here this over and over - "accuracy is the key"! There is not enough difference in these two projectiles that you shouldn't go for the most accurate. TRY THE 123's or the Berger 130 VLD's. I can't explain why but they really surprised me when I couldn't get the others to shoot that well.

Mark Hamersley
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#19 Postby Mark Hamersley » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:49 pm

+1 to what Dave said!

Until recently I had been using 139 Scenars and 142 Sierras in my 6.5 with some successes. In the recent WA Queens leadup event I tried using 123 Scenars as well as the 139s and found them grouping better so used them exclusively in the main program. It may be just what my current barrel prefers or that my load for the 139s needs more work. JBM was telling me the wind deflection was practically identical for both loads so the decision for me was not hard. Even if the deflection was greater for the 123s I would have gone with the more accurate load.

best regards


Mark

Woody_rod
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#20 Postby Woody_rod » Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:45 pm

macguru wrote:I would say that twist rec is a mistake. I am pretty sure you need 1 in 8 for 140gr. The whole point of getting the 260 was to use 140gr pills. There seems to be a node there, so i am not sure if i need to make them go faster. If I decide they need more speed and i cant reach the next node , then i will just get a 284 win and stop mucking around, but I am not sure that the 260 will not be ok... There is more drop than with my 308, at least at the 41.5gr load. I tried up to 44gr without pressure signs, but only with bergers and they did not work...


Your load is just not doing the job mate. The 260 with the correct powder and projectile will stay with a 300WM using 190 SMKs. It should shoot flatter than a 308 of almost any variety.

Woody_rod
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#21 Postby Woody_rod » Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:48 pm

My own experience with both the 139 and 123 scenar reflects the input from Mark. If you have a look at the records site thread, my scores were all shot using the 123 scenar.

They just shot better in my gun using the load combination I had. At 1000 yards, the drop was almost identical, so much so that I did not need to rezero. The 123s going at 3200fps, the 139 at 3060fps. You wont get that with a std 260 I know, but it shows the comparison.

macguru
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#22 Postby macguru » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:54 pm

yeah , I think there are 3 nodes around 41.5gr, 43.3gr and 45gr (too hot) of 2209, and i think that powder is fine. I found the first node easy enough but your right its pretty mild , but when does that really matter ?? Ill confirm the second node, which is better ballistically than a 308, soon, but as for the third ? I guess thats when you go to AI chambering. sound too hot for a 260 standard although i did get to 44gr 2209 with no probs using 140gr bullets.

As for accuracy, well sure, if its lacking i will give the 123 lapuas a try... the 130 bergers did not work for me....

Andrew

Woody_rod
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#23 Postby Woody_rod » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:08 am

Andrew,

I was using vastly more powder than 45 grains for my 123 scenars. Just think for a minute that the std load for a 308 is 46 grains of 2208 when using 155's, why would you use less for a 260?

macguru
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#24 Postby macguru » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:28 pm

the max load in the charts for the 140gr is about 44gr, and 45gr for the 130gr pills. remember, my 260 is not improved. Are you seriously suggesting i should use 46gr 2209 in a standard 260 rem ?

Seddo
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#25 Postby Seddo » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:50 pm

Mac,

DO you have any pressure signs at the max book load? I load a few of my rounds over the ADI mx load but you have to work up and make sure there arent any pressure signs.
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Woody_rod
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#26 Postby Woody_rod » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:10 pm

macguru wrote:the max load in the charts for the 140gr is about 44gr, and 45gr for the 130gr pills. remember, my 260 is not improved. Are you seriously suggesting i should use 46gr 2209 in a standard 260 rem ?


Being an open shooter for a while, the load charts are only a rough guide. Up to you to decide what to use, but I keep loading up until I see pressure signs.

The MV is what you should be looking at. If not getting enough MV, you are wasting your time with the 260. Any half decent 308 and 155s will shoot inside the 260 if it isnt running at a similar MV.

As I have said number of times here and elsewhere - dont think about BC of a projectile unless you also think about the MV being used. They are relative to each other and should not be looked at in isolation.

A high BC .264 projectile is not going to help you if the MV is not able to give you the terminal V at 1000y if that is your thing. Look at Litz book for more detail.

Woody_rod
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#27 Postby Woody_rod » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:12 pm

macguru wrote:yeah , I think there are 3 nodes around 41.5gr, 43.3gr and 45gr (too hot) of 2209
Andrew


Is the 45 grains too hot as in pressure signs? Or too hot as per the book?

macguru
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#28 Postby macguru » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:51 pm

I have only gone to 44gr so far with no pressure signs, so you are right , i could probably push it a bit. Thanks for the good advice , if i cant get a good MV i may as well try something else, so ill try some warmer loads in the 260 first...

DaveMc
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#29 Postby DaveMc » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:19 pm

Warning!!! I think Rod should have given you a few warnings with some of his statements. No doubt he has done his homework on the 260 case but a couple of things I think should be pointed out 1) You cannot compare a 308 load with a 260 and it is dangerous to do so. You will always be a few grains lower for same pressure.
For example a 6.5*284 load with 140 grain projectiles maxes out at around 53.5 grains 2213SC whereas a straight 284 with 180gr will be more like 56 for same pressure (and 57 in the 284 Shehane) And that is only dropping from 7mm to 6.5 (not 7.62 to 6.5) and the bullet is 180 gr (not 155) so with the heavier bullet the powder charge is lower as well - yet there is still a few grains difference!

Each barrel will be different and seating depth can play a part too so be careful. You might get to 46 grains (Rod has done his work here) but work up slowly.

Another thing you will find is with the shorter barrel the faster powders and lighter pills should perform better. Once again 123 gr and 2208 might find you some surprising velocities whereas 2209 and 140 class will suffer a little more with a shorter barrel. Faster powders need less barrel length to get to their max.

AlanF
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#30 Postby AlanF » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:53 pm

DaveMc wrote:...You cannot compare a 308 load with a 260 and it is dangerous to do so...

Agreed. A 308 has 36% more bore area than a 260, so pressures will be significantly lower with the same projectile weight and powder charge. Rod, I know you qualified your statement with a recommendation to watch for pressure signs, but providing such risky advice on loads is irresponsible.

Alan


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