260 Rem Loads ?

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Ammo Iain
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260 Rem Loads ?

#1 Postby Ammo Iain » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:55 pm

Folks,
Some time ago my son decided he would like to try his hand at F Class shooting. We have both previously only shot vermin control on family properties in South West Qld using .243, 25/06 and .358Win calibres. After some good advice from this forum my son purchased a Savage F Class in 6BR. I decided that if I was going to play, then my trusty Win Model 70 in 243 was not up to it and so bought a Tikka T3 Super Varmint in 260Rem. The 2 rifles were bought together and each wears a Nightforce 12-42x56 BR scope (his with a 20MOA rail). We decided to go for Redding S Type dies & competition seater and use Lapua brass. I also use an RCBS Chargemaster scale and CED chrono.

As my son is doing an Honours year at Uni, he has been time poor and we have struggled to run the guns in and get loads sorted. The Tikka was run in by 10 rounds (i.e. copper fouling stopped), but the Savage took 50 rounds before it did not bule up after every shot.

Load development for the 6BR has been easy. 30.0Gns of AR2208 behind a 108Gn Berger with CCI450 primer and the damn thing puts 5 rounds through pretty much the same hole at 100m. I know the long range performance may be a little different, but it looks like a good place to start.

The 260 Rem has been a little harder. I ran the gun in with 41.5 Gns of AR2209 behind a Lapua 123Gn Scenar with CCI250 Mag primers. The gun loves this load and will also shoot one hole at 100m in calmish conditions on 5 round groups. However the MV is only 2620fps (however the ES was 10 for a 5 round group !).

I loaded a 260R test set using 0.5 Gn increments up to 45.0Gns and saw nodes at 44.0 and 45.0. I have since been pursing the node around 45.0. My second shoot at 45.0 was a mess and so loaded 44.8, 45.0 & 45.2. The 45.2 shot a tight 5 round clover group, so I loaded 30 rounds more like this, but they would not repeat the tight group. I feel like I am chasing around in circles with this load !

Each time I go back to shooting 41.5 and sure enough I get a single hole !
Projectiles in all cases for the 260R are seated 0.015“ off lands.
I have previously had troubles with loads for the 243 and found a ‘cliff edge’ effect whereby sometimes the gun loves a load, but if you are 0.2 Gns over it shoots all over the place. However, I cannot seem to get the 45 Gn load for the 260R to sit still !!

The punch line is, can anyone advise on likely nodes or suggest a load for 260R with 123 Gn Scenars in a 24” barrel pls ?

As an aside, my experience with the hunting guns suggests that 2208 burns cleaner than 2209 i.e. with 2209 shoot one round and pull the bolt to see the barrel full of debris whereas with 2208 its lots cleaner . I wonder if anyone has had similar experience ? The Chargemaster also seems to be able to meter 2208 more consistently, but that is no excuse for the problems I am seeing.

I am considering giving up on 2209 in the 260R and trying to find a 2208 load, however, 2209 fills the case well with a load of 40 odd grains. 2208 will run the case a little more empty and I gather full is better for consistency.

I’d love to get your advice on this as I seem to be becoming the munitions builder for my son’s future F Class career !
Regards, Iain

Norm
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#2 Postby Norm » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:31 pm

I would ditch the magnum primer and try again.

Quick
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#3 Postby Quick » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:05 am

I agree; i dont have a 260 but would go with a std large rifle primer like the CCI BR2 or Federal GMM 210. Also maybe try 2213SC. I have a mate who runs that in both his 260s and they love it. I think his load is around 46.5gr with a 139 scenar so you should be higher with the 123gr scenars.

As always, start low and work up to the velocity/node you want.
Shaun aka 'Quick'
Yanchep, Western Australia

308 Win F/TR & F-S
7mm F-Open Shooter.

macguru
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#4 Postby macguru » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:05 pm

I am buying a 260 next week, and plan on starting with 42gr 2209, cci br2 primers 140gr projectiles and lapua brass. I will work up from there towards 44 and look for a node. I may try the slower powders but have been told 2209 is good.

I think if you are going with that rifle 140s are what i would try, but 130s are supposed to be pretty good as well.

cheers andrew

Woody_rod
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#5 Postby Woody_rod » Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:53 am

Ok, this is something I have played with...albeit a modified 260.

I find CCI BR2's a bit hard - federal GM's are a better choice.

Use 2209 powder. From my experience, you will never fit enough 2209 in a 260 (308) case to be a hazard. I would be using more than 44 grains, but you need to test it and watch for pressure signs - the usual caveats apply.

My 260 improved uses 48 grains of 2209: I can use 52 grains, but it doesnt shoot as well as 48. I use a drop tube if you are wondering how it fits :)

The 123 grain Scenar is an excellent choice of projectile - my first choice as well. You should be able to get 3000fps if you wanted. I used Nosler CC but had two blow up at 100y from the muzzle.

Woody_rod
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#6 Postby Woody_rod » Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:57 am

If you look at the 123 and 139 Scenars side by side, you will see that the 123 is almost the same length - and has a very high BC for its weight. The 123 actually needs the same or faster twist than the 139, as it is so long.

All in all, I think the 123 is superior at 1000y to the 139 - was in my experience anyway. The 260 just doesn't have the capacity to drive the 139 hard enough - my 260 improved could get 3060fps from the heavier projectile, but the 123 always outshot it.

Ammo Iain
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#7 Postby Ammo Iain » Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:04 pm

Thanks for all the feedback guys. It seems the mag primers get the big thumbs down ! The 243 & 25/06 hunting guns seem to like them so that’s why I was using them.

I think I’ll get some Fed Gold Match primers and see how they go.

Interestingly the light 41.5 Gn load likes the CCI250’s.

Quick, I have 4kg’s each of 2209 & 2208 so I was really looking for a load using one of these. I have used 2213SC in the 25/06 before, but am tring to keep it simple (at least until my son get money to buy the 284 Shehane he keeps mumbling about).

Andrew, I have a bunch of 123Gn projectiles and am happy to stay with them for now. I mucked around with multiple projectiles in the 25/06 (also a Tikka) and came to the conclusion it was better to stick with just one (or two if I had too).

Rod, thanks for the advice on the 123’s … yes I like them and its nice to hear confirmation. 45Gns seems to almost fill the 260R and I am seeing no pressure signs so your advice that I am unlikely to get myself in trouble with that combo makes good sense. I have not had the chrono on the heavier loads yet so it will be interesting to see what they return at 45 if 41.5 is only giving me 2600 odd fps.

The Tikka runs 1 in 8 twist so I think it is fine to stabilise either 123Gn or the heavier projectiles. Does that sound OK ?

Also Rod, what variant is your 260 ? 6.5SuperLR ? I am looking at a re-barrel on the 243 and am toying with the idea of making it either a 6mmSuperLR or a 6BR.

Thanks again all.

I am still kean to hear if anyone has seen a 2209 node around 45Gns for the 123Gn Scenar ??

Ta, Iain

Matt P
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#8 Postby Matt P » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:11 pm

If it were me I'd be looking at the heavier projectile, it doesn't matter how fast it gets there, it's about winddrift and the 140grn bullet has an advantage, I'd also suggest trying other brands of bullets. I've shot 1000's and 1000's of 6.5 bullets and although the Lapua's look better, weigh better and measure better, they (in my experience) never shot better, I always got better results with the 142 SMK, now that Berger are avalible I'd give them a go. I'm currently getting back into Open using a 6.5 x 47 with 130 Bergers with very good results.

Matt P


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