future fopen chamberings?

[bruce moulds]

matt,
i believe that fclass open is on the verge of a new phase.
it has taken a long time, but i believe that wind reading skills have developed a lot over the last 12 years.
we currently run under the belief that high b.c. and speed is the secret to success. while this is helpful, it does not include sheer accuracy in the formula, nor does it include shootability which is part of accuracy. this is evidenced by the current trend toward the 7mm magnum chamberings.
when someone comes along with the windreading skills of someone like corbett, using the likes of a 6.5 x 47, they will redefine fclass open.
that cartridge and possibly the 6.5 super lr can waterline such that they are not far behind the 7mm in the wind, because they have a wider scoring ring.
a guy was shooting a 6.5 x 284 at a recent prize shoot, and would have won if he hadn't wound the wrong way. this reminded me that the only reason i am using a 284 is for barrel life.
the 6.5 x 47 has barrel life, accuracy and easy tunability, and shootability due to low recoil, cheaper bullets and powder, and this combined with the wind skills coming on line offers a serious competitive concept.
you have yet to play with 140 gn bullets.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Brad Y]

Had my first club shoot today with a 6.5x47L. Two words. Holy crap.

90.7 (15 shots string) And so gentle to shoot. This was using 120gr SMK's at 700m. The guy who owns it hasnt tried the 130gr bullets yet.

I had illusions of grandure with a 260 improved shooting 140's but I think I have changed my mind in the last few days. This morning was icing on the cake.

Like you said bruce get the right driver and it will hard to beat. Im not such person but still like the cartridge.

[Quick]

Everytime I read about the 6.5x47 Lapua, it makes me want it more!

Brad, was the 6.5 at swanbourne?

[Brad Y]

No mate down here in Busselton.

There were only 2 possibles shot today, me with the 6.5x47L and Graham Oates shot a 90.9 with his 308.

I will be at swanbourne next saturday (in perth for the weekend) so hopefully can get a shot at FS with one of the clubs there.

[OuttaAmmo]

Don't know about the future, but the 6.5x47 is my CURRENT F-Open chambering.

[Matt P]

Bruce
My gut feeling is 140's are going to be too much bullet for the case, but won't know without trying, but I'm not overly interested because of the way it shoots the 130's.
I still think the 284 is the go to caliber for the longs I've chambered a few and so far they look the goods, from what I can see is, the trick is not to run them flat out and use the BC and weight of the bullet.

Matt P

[bruce moulds]

the only reason i mention the 6.5 super lr in the same sentence as the 6.5 x 47 is this.
the super lr case with its bit more case capacity can run with 2209 and a 140 bullet about where the lapua case runs with 2208 and a 130.
it would be interesting to hear comments from those with experience in this matter.
matt,
i agree regarding the 284.
i have long been of the opinion that 55 gn of 2213sc is a max load with a 180 berger in this case, all consideretions kept in balance.
the recent discussion re the 284 shehane suggests that there are others of like mind (dave at least) regarding pressures and the things that go with them.
however the 284 might be a bit finnicky with loads compared to the 6.5 x 47, and probably does not have the sheer accuracy potential.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Brad Y]

Matt

I ran the ballistics online at JBM and the 140 hybrids do have a half a minute advantage in windage if you base the 130s at 2950 and the 140's at 2800. Elevation wise the 130's are a minute flatter. This was 10mph crosswind.

I dont know if those speeds are about right. Seems as though if your driving the 140's you will have to push to get to that range, where most reports are that kind of velocity is fairly easy to achieve with the 130.

Real world I dont have any experience aside from shooting the 120 SMK's which on paper are probably a very short range bullet.

[Matt P]

Bruce
The problem with the 6.5 Super is it's a widcat and that means fireforming, special dies etc, been there done that and not going back there, for every wildcat there's a standard case the does the same job without all the F%^&$*G around, I chambered a 284 Shehane last week and for the life of me I can't see the point, IMO you need to see 250-300 FPS extra speed to see a "real" difference @ the target and you just can't get that with the small case capacity increases these "improved cases" give.

Matt P

[OuttaAmmo]

The 6.5 SLR requires only a pass through a sizing die with new cases. No fire forming like the AI cases.

[Matt P]

Brad
Some of the velocities claimed by people are a little on the "generous" side to say the least, I'm using 38gns of 08 and my best guess is around the 2870-2900, i haven't shot it over a chrony because as far as I'm concerned chronographs are only good for giving a speed to punch into a ballistic program and not much else, there are those that live and breathe ES, SD and Brian Litz's book, all I worry about is the group on the paper and don't get to wraped up in the theory and internet bullshit.

Regards
Matt P

[AlanF]

On F-Open calibres, here's my two cents worth, and its pretty simple.

Settle on one calibre (for several good reasons). Choose the calibre that will give you the best chance of success for the type of F-Class shooting you do.
e.g.

• Shooting only up to 600yd, use a very accurate calibre with moderate wind performance e.g. 6BR.
• Shooting mostly shorts, occasional longs or Queens, use a high accuracy calibre with good wind performance e.g. 6.5x47.
• Shooting mostly Queens, use a calibre with solid accuracy and very good wind performance e.g. 284 Win

Why one calibre? Less to learn and less confusing - you'll know more about the chosen calibre than you would if trying to run several, and probably the most important advantage is a high familiarity with the performance in the wind. You can develop a better "feel" for wind reading if you don't have to keep making allowances for different calibres (its probably why those pesky F-Std shooters upset us more often than we would like ).

As far as the best long range calibre, if accuracy is solid, then go with the best wind-performer that you can handle in terms of recoil. With all of the above, obviously barrel life needs to be acceptable to your budget!

Alan

[Norm]

there are those that live and breathe ES, SD and Brian Litz's book, all I worry about is the group on the paper and don't get to wraped up in the theory and internet bullshit.

Regards
Matt P

I tend to agree with this, and I sell Bryan's book by the carton! Trigger time is much better than keyboard time but you still need to keep up to date with what's on offer and how to use it.
As far as future cartridges go, I did enjoy shooting the 6XC loaded with 115gn pills. I see some potential there for a future new build for myself.

[AlanF]

there are those that live and breathe ES, SD and Brian Litz's book, all I worry about is the group on the paper and don't get to wraped up in the theory and internet bullshit.

Regards
Matt P

I tend to agree with this, and I sell Bryan's book by the carton! Trigger time is much better than keyboard time but you still need to keep up to date with what's on offer and how to use it.
As far as future cartridges go, I did enjoy shooting the 6XC loaded with 115gn pills. I see some potential there for a future new build for myself.

I wonder what Bryan Litz worries about. Whatever it is, it seems to to stand him in good stead in competition .

[Norm]

Bryan is living the dream!
A good salesman, knows his stuff and gets to shoot for a living.
Have you seen his latest Android app? A.B. Sells for $30 a pop and he is getting thousands of downloads a week.
Plus he gets to shoot Berger bullets for free..........

Yep, living the dream. I don't think he has much to worry about.