Recoil Pad Shape - Straight or curved

[higginsdj]

My 'new' second hand Omark has a straight recoil pad and most of the pressure I am feeling in recoil is on my collar bone (and its sore). Is this an indication of poor positioning of the stock or should I try a curved recoil pad? or should I try something else?

Cheers

David

[higginsdj]

Of possible interest, I think I have the rifle butt too far left (on my chest rather than shoulder) pressing on the collar bone just under the right hand edge of my neck. Watching a few YouTube vids indicates that it sholdl be a lot further to the right (a couple of inches) in the shoulder 'pocket'.

Cheers

David

[johnk]

David,

That's the joy of prone shooting - finding the correct lie for you. You really need somebody local with a bit of nous to help you find a stable, repeatable position that suits. It's difficult to start from scratch by yourself as you will find that the interrelation between body, rifle & accoutrement dimensions all comes into play. From my chair, I could shoot from the hip & say that your stock is too long/ too short or you are too square to the target or your bipod is set too high but it would all be guesswork.

Back in the seventies, it was a lot easier for muggins as an 180 cm 75 kg kid to get a workable duelling stance than it was to fit myself to the target rifles of the day.

However, a few thoughts:

The further you move the angle your body away from in line with the target, the shorter the dimension between your head & the scope becomes (you "shorten" your effective stock length) and this may necessitate you positioning the scope further forward.

The higher your position, the less you need to bend your neck to acquire the sight, but the greater the potential to make your position less stable. Conversely, in an ultra low position, you can lose the anchoring effect of your trigger finger elbow.

The direction of recoil sideways will be influenced by how square your lie to the target is. Ideally, you can achieve a position where the rifle recoils straight back - ask Rob Halloran.

You can shorten your stock somewhat by removing the butt plate. You can lengthen it readily with washers or other temporary packing under the butt plate.

John

[AlanF]

David,

I mentioned these notes earlier : http://ozfclass.com/forums/pdf/FClassTargetShootingTechniquesTrainingCourse.pdf. They have quite extensive coverage of shooting position techniques.

Alan

[bruce moulds]

and of course a limbsaver or pachmayer decelerator recoil pad is worth investigating.
use of might be considered "unmanly", but they make life easier..
keep safe,
bruce.

[higginsdj]

David,

I mentioned these notes earlier : http://ozfclass.com/forums/pdf/FClassTargetShootingTechniquesTrainingCourse.pdf. They have quite extensive coverage of shooting position techniques.

Alan

Thanks Alan, read them. Not specific enough for my needs wrt butt placement. As others have indicated it will be likely I need a seasoned campaigner to look over me on the mound.

Cheers

David

[AlanF]

David,

I would try aligning your body at more of an angle to the aiming direction. Doing this will (assuming you're right-handed) cause your shoulder position to move leftwards and hopefully into line with the butt. I personally drape my mat down at about 30 degrees off the aiming direction, and the butt recoils back onto the fleshy part of the upper arm. Recoil of a hard butt plate into the collar bone is not good.

Alan

[macguru]

A bit off topic but what about those curved brass butt plates on some cowboy lever guns ?

ok if its a 30-30 but can you imagine how that would feel with a 45-70 ? (unless it was a perfect fit of course)

andrew

[DannyS]

Just like the good old days using a .303, its a matter of shooting in the correct position.

[bruce moulds]

andrew,
i had a (6.5 lb?) marlin m95 in 45/70, and it had a crescent buttplate.
i bought the rifle with the intent of hunting buff and cattle.
a load was worked out giving a 400 gn bullet just over 2000 fps, which is well above the factory 1300 or thereabouts.
the thing killed buff ok, but by then it had a recoil pad replacing the buttplate.
of similar ilk was a 58 cal hawhen replica muzzle loader with crescent buttplate and plenty of drop at heel. 180 gn of 2f black and a 600 gn minie bullet was not fun for the shoulder or the cheekbone. i recall wounding a pig with that, and while madly trying to reload was fortunate that a 30/06 user came close by.
keep safe,
bruce.

[higginsdj]

David,

I would try aligning your body at more of an angle to the aiming direction. Doing this will (assuming you're right-handed) cause your shoulder position to move leftwards and hopefully into line with the butt. I personally drape my mat down at about 30 degrees off the aiming direction, and the butt recoils back onto the fleshy part of the upper arm. Recoil of a hard butt plate into the collar bone is not good.

Alan

Thanks Alan,

Things are starting to gel (yes I am right handed although it is just as comfortable shooting left handed).

Rotated too far left (increased angle to the rifle) and the rifle recoils off to the right (from some Youtube instruction videos I saw)

Rotated too far to the right (decreased angle to the rifle) and the rifle recoils off to the left (my own experience).

My mat (and body) are only around 5-10 degrees (at most) to the line of the rifle so will try rotating further left. It might make getting a better/more consistant/easier head position on the stock as well as this is also something I am struggling with.

Cheers

David

[bobeager]

David, ask your more experienced club mates for some coaching. Raeburn T and Cedric M are both noteable F Class standard shooters and should be able to help you. If you wish, come up the highway to Goulburn on Saturday afternoon, we have a strong F Class club, and we are more than keen to help new shooters with technique.

[higginsdj]

Thanks Bob,

My inlaws live in Goulburn, just up the road from the range, so wouldn't mind visiting once my PTA is up and I have my rifle in my possession.

I know Raeburn and Cedric (Cedric was kind enough to let me use his rifle with Factory ammo at 900 m a few weeks ago - he was rather annoyed when I matched his score for the day ). I'll ask them next shoot if they have the time to coach my postion as opposed to the wind.

Cheers

David

[bruce moulds]

david,
there are rules for holding a rifle and shooting it unrested that do not pertain to rested shooting.
one that comes to mind is that a rifle held harder into the shoulder shoots low. the opposite is in fact the case with a rested rifle.
what you will ultimately find is that the best way to shoot a rested rifle is with as minimal an ammount of contact as is humanly possible.
just enough cheek contact to find the centre of the scope. just enough hand contact as to be sure of consistent trigger operation
with regards shoulder contact, lighter recoiling cartridges can be shot free recoil, with the shoulder 12 mm off the butt, catching it on the shoulder as it comes back. with me the 6.5/284 is the hardest kicker i can do this with.
the 284 and up, i need to actually touch the stock with my shoulder so as not to get hit in the head with the scope.
even then it is important to have minimal contact, as it is impossible to have exactly the same each time. 10% difference of a little bit is less than 10% difference of a lot.
this is how you try not to steer the rifle, but let the bags work for you.
powder or silicone on the bags lets the gun slide freely, and the bullet is probably out of the barrel before your body can influence the gun.
with these things in mind, it becomes obvious why there are so many different positions adopted by successful fclass shooters.
a good goal is to look for minimal contact wherever possible, make it consistent, and work very hard to develop and maintain a good follow through. the other thing is to develop a system which minimizes pain.
edit. when a rifle is shot as described above, it is amazing how firgiving it can be to minor hold variations with consistent ammo that is right on a node.
keep safe,
bruce.

[higginsdj]

I need a better recoil pad. The Omark really doesn't have much of a recoil pad on it. Pulling the rifle hard into the shoulder and there is no recoil pain but this seems to be bad for precision/accurate shooting. Anything else produces pain so it's got to the point I am thinking about the pain I am about to receive rather then the shot (though I do not think I have developed a flinch yet.....)

Using a folded up tea towel draped over the end of the butt seems to do the trick so it doesn't need a lot to reduce the impact.

Yesterday I rotated my body clockwise to put the butt further right on the shoulder (previously on the collar bone) and now the target recoils 2 targets to the right instead of 2 targets to the left (did have a couple of shots recoil straight up and down so I must be getting close).

Cheers

David