Cleaning Methods for Short Twist Barrels and High Velocity

[AlanF]

There's huge number of different methods, concoctions, and old wive's tales about the best way of cleaning barrels. However I haven't found the perfect one yet for the short twist high velocity long bullet situation commonly used in F-Open. Added to that we only effectively get one fouling shot (first sighter) and you have a situation that makes cleaning decisions very tough.

I appreciate that many TR and F-Std shooters out there will have excellent recipes, and stories of barrels that go hundreds of rounds between cleans. MR shooters use short twist and long bullets, but relatively low velocities. But anyone who's used a 1 in 8 twist 6.5-284 for example will know what I mean - I don't remember any of my 6.5 barrels going more than a day's shooting without coppering up when near new,let alone when they got beyond 1000 rounds.

There's a lot of good advice for BR shooters on the net, but its not necessarily the best advice for us, because they have a sighting in period where many foulers can be fired. I believe its the same in F-Class in some countries. So we have a unique situation here that we really have to work out for ourselves. Well I can safely say that I haven't worked it out, so would find opinions from experienced F-Open shooters very interesting.

Alan

[BATattack]

hi alan!

adam pohl here. i shot a BAT 6.5x47 on the same target as you in the 09 sa queens.

thought id send you a PM as id rather keep at least one ace up my sleve here in sa!

i hate cleaning guns with a passion. . . yes hate!! i have recently started using pro shot copper solvent and found that it is amazing! i used to use hoppes or butches bore shine and a bronze brush scrubbed back and forth to remove powder fouling. this would take at least 3 cycles to remove the powder then i would swap to a nylon brush with tetra gun or sweets copper solvent leaving it soad for 15-20min and patch out and repeat 2-3 times.

NOW all i do is use pro shot on a bronze brush scrub back and forth half a dozen times and patch straight out ONCE. then repeat with a nylon brush leaving it soak for 15min and patch out. a full bare metal clean used to take me 2 hours now it takes me maby 1/2 hour!

as for sighter/foulers i think getting to know the barrel is the best method if you dont have the opertunity to foul the barrel after cleaning. depending on the barrel i usually check my log book for the setting i recorded at the end of the detail the last time i shot that range and add .5 MOA . after the first sighter i wind down that .5 MOA and it is usually very very close. i have heard of some people actually load their first sighter .5gr hotter and their second sighter .25 hotter than their normal load.

[bruce moulds]

he or she who nails this one will have a seriously good edge if they keep it secret, or be ascended to a godlike status if they share it.
bruce.

[AlanF]

hi alan!

adam pohl here. i shot a BAT 6.5x47 on the same target as you in the 09 sa queens.

thought id send you a PM as id rather keep at least one ace up my sleve here in sa!

i hate cleaning guns with a passion. . . yes hate!! i have recently started using pro shot copper solvent and found that it is amazing! i used to use hoppes or butches bore shine and a bronze brush scrubbed back and forth to remove powder fouling. this would take at least 3 cycles to remove the powder then i would swap to a nylon brush with tetra gun or sweets copper solvent leaving it soad for 15-20min and patch out and repeat 2-3 times.

NOW all i do is use pro shot on a bronze brush scrub back and forth half a dozen times and patch straight out ONCE. then repeat with a nylon brush leaving it soak for 15min and patch out. a full bare metal clean used to take me 2 hours now it takes me maby 1/2 hour!

as for sighter/foulers i think getting to know the barrel is the best method if you dont have the opertunity to foul the barrel after cleaning. depending on the barrel i usually check my log book for the setting i recorded at the end of the detail the last time i shot that range and add .5 MOA . after the first sighter i wind down that .5 MOA and it is usually very very close. i have heard of some people actually load their first sighter .5gr hotter and their second sighter .25 hotter than their normal load.

Thanks Adam. Yes I remember you from the Queens. Have I sent you that Excel plotting template? With your 6.5x47, how often (round count) did you do your bare metal cleans, and what prompted you to do them, accuracy failing, appearance of copper, or just a period of time you decided on? And did you do any type of light cleaning in between?

Bruce,

Perhaps you could at least tell us what hasn't worked for you .

Alan

[BATattack]

now no one copy me!

[BATattack]

i didnt end up getting a plotting sheet

i heard guys talking about running 200 rounds between cleanings etc so i tryed it and got to about 80 in that barrel and accuracy started to go so i cleanedand it seemed to take 5- 10 shots to settle after that. once bitten twice shy so i never felt the need to try that agian! i guess some people have more experience and a beter ability to see the very begining of a fouling issue and clean after that detail or whatever but i just clean down to bare metal at the end of every day. i dont want to risk a problem halfway through the detail/day.

i just do it because i would rather know my first shot is going to be say 2 MOA low and 1.5moa left and compensate for it than take a gamble of when the barrel is going to foul out. every maby 100 rounds i used a bit of jb and that seemed more erratic during the fouling shots.

i guess every caliber, barrel, powder is going to be different but pro shot, jb and penetrene are the only things in my cleaning box at the moment. i use the same stuff in all my hunting rifles aswell.

bruce did you mess around with wipe out and some other stuff?

[DaveMc]

he or she who nails this one will have a seriously good edge if they keep it secret, or be ascended to a godlike status if they share it.
bruce.

Remember Sharing is Caring Bruce.

Whilst there are many good cleaning compounds out ther I personally haven't looked back after getting onto Boretech eliminator. In my opinion simply the best copper remover I have tried (and no unpleasant odours). It also does a great job on carbon. Three wet patches, a nylon brush, another patch and let it sit for a while, then put another patch through. A 'good" barrel will be clean a fouler might need one or two more treatments. (have borescoped a few now and all get back to 'whistle clean")

Dry patch and finish with a quality light oil (G96 or Ballistol or similar). I tend to get one predictably low shot and then on track (a couple of barrels take a few more to settle).

Nothings perfect but I reckon anyone that tries this will stick with it.

As far as how many shots is very barrel dependent. As Alan said a 6.5*284 running on 2213 might foul quickly, straight 284 I have heard of a few hundred shots still holding together but I clean daily.

Merry Christmas to all I better get back to selling some prawns!!

[Gadget]

+ 1 for Boretech Eliminator
I switched to it 8 months ago and just love the stuff, I'm as rough as guts so I just stick the bronze or nylon brush straight into the bottle, 2 to 3 passes with the bronze, 4 to 5 with the nylon, dry patch's as required.
No waiting no dwell time just head back to the mound and shoot.
Duhh!! yep I have been cleaning between details.( hot 7mm )
Gadget

[BATattack]

+ 1 for Boretech Eliminator
I switched to it 8 months ago and just love the stuff, I'm as rough as guts so I just stick the bronze or nylon brush straight into the bottle, 2 to 3 passes with the bronze, 4 to 5 with the nylon, dry patch's as required.
No waiting no dwell time just head back to the mound and shoot.
Duhh!! yep I have been cleaning between details.( hot 7mm )
Gadget

between details do you clean down to bare metal or is it more of a quick clean to to remove the carbon?

when the guy was selling me the pro shot he was raving on about how it removes carbon, copper, lead etc AND its water soluble. . . i nearly laughed because something that claims to do it all rarely does. i have been very impressed with what ive seen so far.

[AlanF]

There's a good variety of opinions from an impressive collection of US shooters and barrel manufacturers here : http://www.6mmbr.com/borebrushing.html. The long range shooters like Bill Shehane, John Brewer and David Tubb are probably the most relevant to us, although some aren't limited to 1 or 2 foulers.

Looking at these, my methods are definitely on the aggressive side. With me its bronze brushing (including back through the muzzle) with Short scrub. Then if I see copper thru the bore scope, in goes the Sweets 7.62 foamed up with a nylon brush. If that doesn't work, then its time for an abrasive, usually with added attention to the throat. If the throat is seriously rough, its Autosol, otherwise Iosso paste. Then its all washed out with meths on a nylon brush, patched dry then moly paste applied on a patch. With a new 6.5 barrel this is done at the end of a day, but by 1200 rounds or so its down to cleaning every range. Then at about 1500 to 2000, there comes a point where the barrel won't go 12 rounds, so like me, it becomes a senior citizen.

Alan

[Gadget]

Hi Bat,
The method I described brings it back to bare metal that fast.
I was running in a new 6mm last week a Broughton 5c, you know the drill 1 shot clean etc. I used the same method but it took 5 to 6 bronze 10 to 12 nylon and dry patch as req.
I have run 3 new barrels in over the last couple of months and this Broughton was quick to come on 7+ and it cleaned up well, the pair of Benchmarks were a little stubborn at first but settled down at 20+.
The only thing is, I use plenty of the stuff, and you must do a through clean of the chamber, like I said I'm rough and splash it around like water a $30 bottle has lasted 5 months.
As my wife love to remind me " Shooting is a cheap sport dear "
well that's what I told her when I got into it,
Graham

[RDavies]

What is bore tech eliminator like to leave in the bore over night or for a few days? I had heard bore tech was one of the solvents which takes a while to settle in after cleaning before the accuracy returns, have you found it better than others? After a shoot I like to run a few patches of kroil/hoppes in the bore for a few days, then patch out with Butches or the kroil will make it take longer to settle back in. Some people run Ballistol though before the 1st shot, doesn't this make the 1st shot go very low? My latest 7mm barrel is a bit of a pig in that the 1st 6-7 shots are real erratic, with unpredictable fliers before it settles down. I have to run off for a few fouling shots at zeroing ranges before I shoot it, so I will be stuck when no zeroing range is available. I,m tempted to try either HBN or moly in it so I can go for a few days shooting before a clean out.

Luckily my Dasher and 6.5 settle in very quickly after the 1st fouler but it would be good t be able to get even the 1st fouler closer to the group with all barrels.

[Gadget]

Hi Rod,
Just for you, Bore tech sucks and I don't think you should try it, I think your current cleaning method requiring 7 shot's to settle down is farrrr farrrr better than Bore tech .
Besides if you get any better we will never catch you, have you heard that shooters in the state's are trying a super glue patch as a final clean

No seriously I have not needed to leave it in the barrel as it's just so quick to clean up after a 12 to 23 shot string, I do use molly in all my barrels.
As for the first shot, well if I tell you that no it's predictable and consistent enough to work with, at the Vic Match rifle we were all cleaning our 7mm's between detail's and most of the time we were one or two on with our sighter's.
I must say IMHO I don't like HBN, it again to me fouls the begesus out of a perfectly good barrel, so I got rid of the stuff.

Graham

[DaveMc]

What is bore tech eliminator like to leave in the bore over night or for a few days? I had heard bore tech was one of the solvents which takes a while to settle in after cleaning before the accuracy returns, have you found it better than others? After a shoot I like to run a few patches of kroil/hoppes in the bore for a few days, then patch out with Butches or the kroil will make it take longer to settle back in. Some people run Ballistol though before the 1st shot, doesn't this make the 1st shot go very low? My latest 7mm barrel is a bit of a pig in that the 1st 6-7 shots are real erratic, with unpredictable fliers before it settles down. I have to run off for a few fouling shots at zeroing ranges before I shoot it, so I will be stuck when no zeroing range is available. I,m tempted to try either HBN or moly in it so I can go for a few days shooting before a clean out.

Luckily my Dasher and 6.5 settle in very quickly after the 1st fouler but it would be good t be able to get even the 1st fouler closer to the group with all barrels.

G'day Rod, The best thing to clean those barrels of yours is straight hydrochloric acid and leave in your barrel for a week Ha Ha.

Seriously though eliminator seems very mild on the stainless steel. I have left in overnight but it really doesn't need it -as it reacts so quickly.

A couple of my barrels take a few shots to settle in and some (main ones I am using) come on song pretty quickly. I don't think you can get away from it. Each barrel just seems different. Interestingly the one that cleans the best takes the most to foul and settle. Presumably it would also go the longest between cleans?
I like Ballistol or G96 after the Eliminator and they both seem to settle in quickly after at least 1 low. In the Truflite 284SH barrel I used for the last 3 Queens at all ranges I got very used to the right amount of elevation (basically aim top of 6 at 300, top of 5 for 600 and top of 4 @ 900 for first shot of each day) but changing barrels and calibers made it harder to keep track of.
Maybe you should just use your Dasher at all ranges??? (still probably wouldnt help us)