284 family

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RDavies
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284 family

#1 Postby RDavies » Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:03 pm

What is the latest opinion as far as 284 based cartridges. I see the 6.5 is starting to lag a littler further behind ,and the 7mm starting to become more popular. How do you all think the 30/284 will go in longer range F class ,or do you think the straight 7mm/284 will be the way of the future?

AlanF
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Re: 284 family

#2 Postby AlanF » Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:06 pm

RDavies wrote:...I see the 6.5 is starting to lag a littler further behind ...

Hmmm... not sure what information you're basing that statement on. There's some talk about 7mm as the way to future, but probably more about 6mm! The main problem with 7mm, and to a greater extent .30 cal, is that to get reasonable BC you need very heavy bullets (175gr in 7mm, and over 200gr in .30 cal). And driving those heavy projectiles at sufficient velocity for the longer ranges means considerably more recoil than with 6.5mm. Now you might say that recoil doesn't worry some shooters, but that's not the point. There is a certain level of recoil at which a rifle of a given weight will become very difficult to shoot accurately, because it will jump and twist off the front rest. In my opinion, even the standard .284 Win is marginal in this respect, although a well-designed stock, and the possible increase to 10Kg allowed weight will help.

Of the 21 shooters at the Canberra Queens, 15 used 6.5mm at the longs. If I was advising someone on what to get as the best all-round calibre for F-Class, 6.5mm (not necessarily in .284 case) would be my pick. :wink:

Alan

RDavies
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#3 Postby RDavies » Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:56 am

Alan F . As you said ,the 6.5 isnt starting to lag behind ,what I should have said ,is that the 6.5 on the 284 case isnt considered to be the only case worth shooting any more. People are starting to go to smaller case 6.5s or running the 284 at its full 7mm. What 6.5 case do you think will eventualy overtake the 6.5-284? How about a 6mm rem improved case necked up to 6.5, or will it be something slightly smaller again like the 6.5 rogue. As for 7mms. Who thinks the straight 284 or smaller 7mm case will become most popular in the future, taking into account the possible 10kg weight limit for F class open.

Cochran
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Location: Texas

#4 Postby Cochran » Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:09 am

I think the only case that will overtake a 6.5x284 in the near future would have to be an improved version of the 6.5x284 that has good factory brass available. It may be slightly smaller or larger, would have a longer neck and possibly a sharper shoulder. It wouldnt be better just different.

There are several guys I know here in the states working on various 6mm cases. Mainly to use with DTAC 115s. These will be very popular in the shorter range events. One my even replace the 6BR in popularity but for LR nothing has proven to be better than a 6.5x284.

Jeff
Texas

AlanF
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#5 Postby AlanF » Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:45 am

Jeff,

I am encouraged to hear someone with your credentials saying that. I have been wondering whether the 6.5x284 is overbore, but am starting to realise that you can run it with 140gn projectiles at 2950 plus fps as much as you like without being hard on your brass. The lower capacity cases need to run higher pressures to get up there (some never do), and sub-2900 MV is not getting the best out of 140gn projectiles for long range. That said, some people do extremely well with 260 Rem etc. - but what that tells me is that their wind-reading ability makes up for the lack of horsepower.

Alan

Cochran
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#6 Postby Cochran » Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:48 pm

Alan

Improved 260 and 6.5x55s are nice cases but I dont think they will come close to the popularity of something that has good formed brass already available. Everybody does a wildcat ONCE.

As for overbore. When I had my first 6.5x284 built, my smith said I have to understand that barrels are disposable just like bullets, if I want to compete with the big boys. You have to pay to play.
I'm working on a 6mm with Jeff Traylor. Its overbore but the idea is to blow away all the Dashers and 6XCs in 600 yard matches.

I agree with you about the 7mm's. Not enough extra BC to justify the recoil.

Jeff
Texas

Tony Z
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#7 Postby Tony Z » Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:11 pm

edited 5/4/06
Tony Z.
Last edited by Tony Z on Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Chris Burdett
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Location: NSW Australia

#8 Postby Chris Burdett » Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:12 am

Good postings Tony Z, given the above you posted before that you thought your 7mm WSM was crap. Is this so in only the 7mm? The short fat case surely is the way of the future, something like a 6BR scaled up.
Given the latest Aus. post position what chance do we have of getting 200gn Knights/ 187BIB,s to try?
Chris B.

RAVEN
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#9 Postby RAVEN » Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:10 am

Great post TZ
I am a 7mm fan and I have noticed with my 284 1:8.5 twist barrel shooting 175SMKs & 180 Berger’s that the rifle does want to crank around (torque) maybe a 1:9.5 or 1:10 would reduce this. Would be nice if one of the bullet manufacturer made a heavy flatbase pill.
CHeers
RB :)

RDavies
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#10 Postby RDavies » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:05 am

The reason I was thinking of going to the 284 was that Sierra and Berger 175gn bullets are easy to get. With the new postal rules, it will be hard for me to get my 100 and 107 gn .224 bullets into the country. I was after this caliber for the longs or in high wind conditions. I am leaning more towards the 7mm 284 ,but could possibly be talked into a 30/284.

AlanF
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#11 Postby AlanF » Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:00 pm

Tony,

I wouldn't be surprised to see more "low capacity" 7mm variations used in F-Class. There's some evidence that the heavy projectiles give you an advantage in certain wind conditions. And Bisley apparently has a good variety of wind conditions so it'll be interesting to see who chooses what calibre for 2009. However as far as your predictions about .30 cal magnums, there would be very few who would agree with you on that. Remember, in Australia, the average F-Class distance to target is probably less than 600yds. If I was to make a prediction, it would be that 6mm is more likely to take over from 6.5 than is anything larger.

Alan :)

Cochran
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Location: Texas

#12 Postby Cochran » Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:59 pm

What kind of velocity are you guys seeing in a straight .284 ? The numbers I've seen are more like 2750 , which negate any extra BC over the 6.5x284. I thought the 7mms would need a larger case to get near 3000 fps. and this would also negate any additional barrel life as well as adding recoil.

Jeff

RAVEN
Posts: 1978
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:37 pm
Location: Adelaide South Australia (CTV)

#13 Postby RAVEN » Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:18 pm

Hi Cochran
I did a ladder test on the 180Gr Bergers 2 weeks ago and the max velocity before pressure signs was 3060fps the 2 nodes I had out of the 30" tube was around 2850 and 2920fps

Alan U would know that most major F-Class events are usually won and lost at the longs I think the 6mm's would be the top cal. to 600m the 7mm from 6-900m and the 6.5 do the middle part really well this is why IMO that they do well and are popular with more 7mm and 6mm coming into competition we will see if this is true.
At the end of the day it still depends were U point it!!
Cheers
RB :)

AlanF
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Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:22 pm
Location: Maffra, Vic

#14 Postby AlanF » Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:56 pm

Richard,

Those velocities are impressive. I think its great to see a few people using the .284 - IMHO its got the best chance of anything bigger than than 6.5mm of taking a sizeable "market share". Richard Wild and Bill Siegloff have both been getting promising results. Richard appeared to be still looking for the right load at Canberra - he had some very good and some not so good ranges.

The main challenge I see is to get your stock and rest setup developed to reduce the bad behaviour.

Alan

Tony Z
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Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:02 am

#15 Postby Tony Z » Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:17 pm

edited 5/4/06
Tony Z.
Last edited by Tony Z on Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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