Berger 180 Hybrids

[Cameron Mc]

You tried those Hybrids yet Dave, or will it be a big surprise when we next meet

Cameron

[DaveMc]

Hi Cameron - No not yet. I pulled my 7mm barrel off and put it away in safe storage before trying them. Waiting impatiently on some new 7mm barrels and will try them in those. Very hard for me to control myself and not pull it out to run up a load I can tell you.

Rod - What about you???

[AlanF]

You tried those Hybrids yet Dave, or will it be a big surprise when we next meet

Cameron

I'm wondering if Emil's advice re: not jamming is a cunning plan to make us Aussies jump the VLDs? Maybe he doesn't know that despite the best efforts of the US F-Class Team, we've smuggled a few hybrids out of the US.

I shouldn't speak to soon. Bartman only gave me 3 hybrids (projectiles, not boxes). I'll save them up for when the flags look real tricky .

Alan

[bartman007]

To jump or not to jump, that is the question

Hey Alan, I'd suggest not using all those Hybrids at once. Just save them for the important points

Now that the cat is out of the bag, I'm intending to come back to Rosedale on the weekend to tune my VLD and Hybrid loads. Should be an interesting day

See you there.

[bartman007]

Dave, I'm new to the 7mm and 180 projies.

I'm intending to work out some loads this week, that I will trial on Saturday. I've already had a quick run with the VLD's at 1000 yards, which apart from 3 fliers in the Bull, gave me a 55/60. And they were ticking along at 2860fps with a jump.

I've read a few comments indicating the VLD's are troublesome to get working. Of course its now my turn to experience some pain. No pain, no gain as they say! I've now only got less than 500 to blow off...

I'll be keen to see how 'plug and play' the Hybrids are. Microsoft stuffed it up quite well, now lets see how Berger goes.

[DaveMc]

Bartman I am relatively new to them too. I have to say I have been lucky with the 180 VLD's. The standard common load of 2213 and 15 thou jam worked straight up -slightly lower velocity than you (2840). I only started using them recently, shot them in Perth at the longs and NRAA presidents and Queens. Lucky enough to get 4 x 60's and a couple of 59's at 900 and 1000 in those so am wrapt with bullet. Will be hard to drop in favour of the hybrid but can only hope?? Nice to have a backup plan though.

I did try a small jump but had 3 vertical fliers in the 5 ring at 800m so went back to jam.

[AlanF]

Dave,

Is that with a 1 in 9 twist? I have a couple of 1 in 9s and am thinking about 1 in 8.5 for slow 180s.

Alan

[bartman007]

Dave,

Thanks for the feedback on what you have found to work.

I have all the measuring gear turning up from Sinclairs this week (I hope). That should allow me to stop guessing, and more accurately seat the projectiles.

In regard to the difference in powder from seating in the lands to jumping, do you have a rough indicator in grains? I will try some in the lands just to compare group sizes.

On another note, roughly how much neck interferance do you run with when jamming your projies? I've always been concerned about the projie being left in the barrel when ejecting rounds that have been chambered for too long. I normally run with 1 thou with a jump.

[DaveMc]

Alan, yes it is a 1 in 9. I haven't tested in extreme altitude or really low temps yet although Perth was 7 degrees one morning.

Bartman. I would try backing down 1.0 grain when you jam and work back up again. You might see a small rise in velocity or pressure when jamming (depending on neck tension I think). I tried a few neck tensions and 0.5-1 thou gave me the best ES but probably not the best choice for not leaving a bullet behind. I had a few occasions during both Queens where I had to wait. I had previously decided not to extract if faced with this. Even at 1000 I saw very little change in vertical. I was prepared to aim low and aimed at bottom of 6 ring for first one. It nearly dropped out the bottom so I left them alone and aimed smack on vertical for the rest I think the ADI powders are amazingly robust for temp variations in velocity. I normally would have pulled them out but had Emil's words ringing in my ears and thought a 5 from velocity variation was better than a stuck bullet but they never came.

[AlanF]

Alan, yes it is a 1 in 9. I haven't tested in extreme altitude or really low temps yet although Perth was 7 degrees one morning.

Thanks Dave. I'm starting to think 9 is enough. If I encounter low temperatures at low altitude, then its only a matter of changing to the 168s which go just as well in my barrels. Don't go telling that Bartman too much until he tells you what 7mm chambering he's using .

Alan

[RDavies]

Ive only tried a few shots with the Hybrids over a crony, not on paper. To get the same velocity with VLDs jammed .015 VS Hybrids jumped .010" takes .5gn more with the Hybrids. VLDs for me have been easy to get to shoot, just jam then .015" and thats it. I will use VLDs at Canberra and Malaba until I get the barrel rechambered, then will work up a load for the Hybrids.
One of the main reason I like the idea of the Hybrids is so that they dont have to be jammed, making extracting a live round risk free. At Belmont I also tried to extract a live round while waiting out a change and I think the bullet was staying in the throat, so I reclosed the bolt.

Should we move the Hybrids and team equipment chat to a separate section?

[DaveMc]

Yeah we are getting off track a bit. I actually watched you do that Rod. And I watched you extract another. I couldn't work out how you "felt" the difference and meant to ask?? I also noted at the time the shot was not far off in elevation either (can't remember exactly where now??)

[AlanF]

I may have some hybrids in time for Canberra. Will definitely try them for a range or two in the leadup if they get here.

[RDavies]

. I actually watched you do that Rod. And I watched you extract another. I couldn't work out how you "felt" the difference and meant to ask?? I also noted at the time the shot was not far off in elevation either (can't remember exactly where now??)

When I lifted the bolt, it felt normal, but when I tried to pull it back it took a lot of effort to get it back a few mill. I knew then that it was stuck in the lands, so reloaded it. Since I knew it would have loosened the neck, Im pretty sure I would have held at the top of the X. Not sure where it hit, but I,m pretty it was not far off.

I tried the 180 sierras to see if they liked jumping and they dont, so I hope the Hybrids do. I was willing to give up a slight BC to be able to load jumping.

[DaveMc]

My Sierra load has a 20 thou jump - very accurate short range but has a little more velocity spread so starts to open up at 1000 (used that load at QRA queens Rod). I hit magical (repeatable single digit) es with a jammed, light neck tension load and haven't looked back (used at Perth and NRAA Belmont - interestingly my short range scores were lower and longs much improved. Both Sierras and VLD's worked OK with Jam. I was getting more velocity spread with a jump.

The big question is this?? For me it was worth jamming and suffering by leaving the chamber loaded with a delay (Real problem when you have to unload for safety reasons). As far as points lost - I can't say I saw any from chamber heating and certainly gained some from low velocity spread. If there is a compulsory unload at the mound it might be different?? In a team shoot if needed to jam I suppose you could come prepared with equipment necessary to remove (cleaning rod and battery blower for powder or chamber brush and patch??) and switch to other shooter for a little while??? For individual shooting it could be a bit more upsetting if you are running out of time?