ar 2213sc

[AlanF]

...one will almost always get out stuff when another does no more...

That concept is well known to door to door vacuum cleaner salesmen...

[IanP]

Bruce,
I have been using 2213SC lot MEM4810 for a little while now and can let you know what I have found. I have been using it in a new Krieger 32" barrel with my fave 284S loads.

This lot of powder is brilliant! It takes 3 single push thru's with a patch to remove most of the burnt powder residue with Butch's BoreShine. I clean my barrels by pushing a patch thru in a single stroke, no back and forth scrubbing action used.

After using patches with the solvent to remove most of the residue (3 patches with this powder) I then use a brush and run it thru 3 times in single strokes, removing the brush each time as it exits the end of the barrel. I dont use the back and forth scrub a dub dub that many others use to clean barrels.

After 3 passes of the brush I then run a patch thru to see how much powder residue has been removed thru brushing. This powder lot takes about 2 patches (single strokes and patch removed) after brushing to get rid of all residue.

I then run a patch sprayed (soaked) with Ballistol thru the barrel and with this light oil I use a little back and forth, srub a dub dub action. Then 2 more clean patches pushed thru once and inspected and the job is done.

This powder lot as well as being no dirtier than the previous also has given me another 20fps for the same load without any head expansion being measured. The 284 cases Achilles heal is head expansion when using 180gr bullets but so far so good. I have an easy to clean barrel with a bit more velocity which puts me on my accuracy load/node.

Its all good for me with this powder lot, to the extent that I have acquired probably a few years supply of it from SARA.

One final thing with this barrel is that I have a Hawkeye borescope, it confirms what the clean patches tell me about the barrel. When I finish my cleaning process the barrel is clean!

IanP

[RDavies]

I was asked on the weekend how much the load has to be reduced with a 284 to keep the same velocity. He has a very accurate load with the old lot but doesnt have a crony to test the new lot. I think he is using 53.5gn of the old lot, whatever velocity that is.

[IanP]

I was asked on the weekend how much the load has to be reduced with a 284 to keep the same velocity. He has a very accurate load with the old lot but doesnt have a crony to test the new lot. I think he is using 53.5gn of the old lot, whatever velocity that is.

Thats a very difficult question as we dont know the chamber he is using or the bullet seating depth etc, etc. If he was to drop it 0.5gr he would probably be close but that is a complete guesstimate!

Ian

[AlanF]

I have both MEM4545 and MEM4820 and could do a test in a 284Shehane - however it wouldn't be reliable, not so much because the case capacity and barrel are different, but because my MEM4545 has been handled in various ways since it was first opened a couple of years ago (e.g. I emptied 8 x 500gn bottles into an old 4Kg tin). It has no doubt dried out somewhat, which will probably bring it up to about the same speed as MEM4820!

So Rod, I would advise the asker to get access to a chrono and test his own powders old and new, alternating shots.

Alan

[bruce moulds]

rod,
if the load is in a good node for the gun, in my experience altering the charge for such a small velocity change is not worth the bother.
such vel changes can happen from day to day, or with fouling variations.
try just loading and shooting the original load.
bruce.

[RDavies]

I,m not sure how finicky his gun is, but then again, it was shooting too well for my liking in Brisbane. I might tell him to load it 5 grains lower when we meet again.
I know with my 7mms, even my old hummer, .5gns either side of its top load would show more verticle, still in the 6 ring, but not always the X ring, but this was with 2209.

[bruce moulds]

rod,
here are some actual numbers.
please note that it is 1 shot per charge, and the vels are not linear.
52.4 2634, 52.7 2661, 55.0 2681, 53.3 2696, 53.6 2698, 53.9 2708, 54.1 2730, 54.5 2736, 54.8 2754, 55.1 2773, 55.4 2792, 55.7 2795.
i think this barrel is a bit of a slow one.
this is the magic lot no of 2213sc.
bruce.

[AlanF]

Here's a graph of some testing with 3 different lots of 2213SC. Of these it would appear that MEM4810 is relatively hot, between about 30 and 60fps hotter than the other two. I believe 4989 is the one now available from SARA and VRA shops.



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[DaveMc]

Thanks Alan - Great info. I have those batches so will hopefully be able to do some confirmation of your figures and get back to group

[AlanF]

Dave,

It should be a fairly reliable indication - the testing was done "interlaced" i.e. all 56.8gn loads followed by all 57.2 etc. so changing barrel temp/condition is eliminated. I wouldn't pay too much attention to the absolute velocities for a multitude of reasons. FWIW it was a 284 Shehane, 30" 1:9 Maddco, molyed 180VLDs jammed, F210 primers. The only question mark on reliability is that the 3 batches are in different states of preservation. The 4545 is older and opened, 4810 also opened, and 4989 from a new bottle. I'll try some from an unopened 4810 against the 4989 today if my hectic retirement day allows it.

Alan

[DaveMc]

Thanks Alan, My condition of batches are basically the same and I am not so interested in the older stuff 4545 as am just about out of 4810 and moving to 4989 now - also in Shehane, 30 inch 1 in 9 barrel.

Cheers, Dave.

[RAVEN]

I wonder if the damp winter air might be causing fouling problems with some ingrediant in this powder???

Rod you maybe spot on there I know JR from NQ doesn’t like 2213SC for that very reason.
Here in SA we are having the wettest winter for about the last 7 or 8 years
so the additional moisture in the air may be the issue.

Alan its been my experience that 500m is the best distance to do a ladder test any closer and it can be a waste of time.
RB

[AlanF]

Alan its been my experience that 500m is the best distance to do a ladder test any closer and it can be a waste of time.
RB

The above testing was done at 5 metres - just velocity testing at home.

I agree about ladder testing - I do mine at 500 yds.

Alan

[DaveMc]

I wonder if the damp winter air might be causing fouling problems with some ingrediant in this powder???

Rod you maybe spot on there I know JR from NQ doesn’t like 2213SC for that very reason.
Here in SA we are having the wettest winter for about the last 7 or 8 years
so the additional moisture in the air may be the issue.

RB

This is an interesting point of discussion in itself. I have heard this from several sources up here. One in particular was using it in 243 Ack and another in 6.5*284. The complaint I heard was extremely hard carbon buildup in front of throat area. Almost impossible to clean. They suspected causing fouling issues and vertical.
Both these are overbore cartridges that burn very hot down a narrow throat and perhaps exacerbate the issue. It is even written up on 6BR site to concentrate scrubbing on the carbon buildup in throat for 6.5*284.
I shoot in FNQ and haven't seen too many issues yet and have used 2213 in 6.5 * 284 and 284 Shehane. I clean after max 4 ranges (50-70 rounds) - Perhaps might with more rounds??- perhaps some of the newer cleaning compounds are helping?? And also some barrels may be affected more than others?? Who knows?