2208 powder issue

[Malcolm Hill]

Hi all. Just started on a new batch of 2208 and have issues with being able to achieve normal velocities. 30 inch Kreiger , Barnard P, Lapua 308 larger primer brass, 155.5 berger Fullbore normal load with previous 2208 batches has been around 46 gns for about 3000 fps. Previous batch changes have needed .1 or .2 grain variations to retain around that velocity. Just changed to lot no 7503 and am up to 46.8 and only achieving 2920 fps. Load is getting compressed and still not getting anywhere near normal velocity. Wondering if anyone else is having same problem. Use 2208 in a 223 with 80 grainers as well and it dropped nearly 80 fps with the same 24.9 gn load used with the previous batch (7094). Can get the 223 back up to around 3000 by using 25.4/ 25.5 but this is way more than I have ever put in a 223. Don't think I can get enough in the 308 case to get back to 3000 fps. After feedback if anyone has a similar problem with lot no 7503 of 2208. Regards Malcolm.

[Stvh]

G'day Malcom.
i have the same problem with batch 7366. Using 47.2 @ 2980 fps. 30" barrel , 155.5 fulbores etc.
Regards Steve.

[saum2]

PM sent

[mmbg]

I’ve seen the same… newer batches seem to be less powerful thus more required… I am up 0.5gn to achieve same result… but still sub 1/4 moa elevation therefore I say it’s academic and I go with the flow…

[Redhawk]

Malcolm, what does the target say? If groups are small and good, then all should be well?

[Malcolm Hill]

Redhawk. Lower or different velocities cause differences in barrel tune which can change grouping ability. When shooting out to a thousand yards velocity of a 308 155gn projectile needs to be at the 3000 fps level or a little better to achieve good results. Shorter ranges can get away with lower velocity. In state teams we try to run 3010- 3020 as a standard and this has previously been obtainable with 2208 without too much trouble. Recent batches have been hit and miss on this being achievable with the 308 case capacity and seating depth, neck tension settings being used. I would conservatively say I have used 150 kgs of 2208 over the years and have never had a batch as slow as this 7503 lot where I can't seem to get anywhere near normal speeds. I have had calls from people that have had similar problems and have had to change powder to get acceptable results. ADI needs to lift their game to keep their powder batches within acceptable levels, as far as I'm concerned they have fallen from "world class" as I now have 8 kgs of powder that I can't use in my 308. Regards Malcolm.

[Redhawk]

Thanks Malcom, understood:)
i have seen 155.5 berger group exceptionally well at 2920….. enough to win some 500m fly competitios and plenty stages in Queens/Kings 300-600y, like in plenty
At 2920, should be doing around 1250 at 1000 yds at sea level, so could be fine.

Also agree that ADI need to lift their game regarding batch consistency…… seems to have gone south since the introductory of the BTI range in terms of batch to batch consistency…

Some FTR shooters might be interested in that slow batch for the heavy pills…….

Regards
Frans Knox

[Redhawk]

I should have added:
See if the gun tunes per normal load development for this batch, it might be at different charge and speed on what the previous batches did. If it tunes and shoot small groups at an acceptable velocity, then all is good. After-all, the target don’t care how fast the bullet is going, but rather where it goes:)

[Rogue22]

I’ve just loaded 100 up from a new batch which I was planning on shooting a comp with in a couple weeks, guess I’ll be getting the lab radar out next weekend!

[Barry Davies]

What people don't understand is that the powder is made to military specs.Owr requirements are secondary so you have to make the best of what you get.

[Rich4]

And be grateful we have it available

[cheech]

Hey Malcom,

Give that slow batch to the FTR blokes I’m sure they’ll love it behind 200s

[Billy308]

Hi malcolm
I have a 2208 jug of lot 7503 not opened so thanks for the heads up. Compressed loads can still group very well. How many rounds on your barrel?
Did you crony on a very cold day, or with a battery pack low on charge as I’ve seen the latter drop velocity by as much as 60 fps

Cheers Bill

[Malcolm Hill]

Hi Bill. Not worried about having compressed loads as I have used several over the years. Problem with this batch is they are / will be severely compressed if I could ever get the velocity out of them. Keeping bullets at their set seating depth will be an issue unless I use a lot more neck tension. As with all my testing of new powder I always keep enough of the old batch to do comparisons with. Always have control loads of original case, primer, powder and projectile to shoot at the same time to get accurate results. When testing new powder it is only the powder that is changed in the loads with a gradual increase of charge weights being used starting from 2 tenths below the control load and increasing by 1 tenth increments up past the control load. Usually load 4 or 5 of each charge. Shots are fired sequentially and velocity recorded for each shot. After going through the sequence of all charges the four or five times the velocities for each charge are worked out. This eliminates changes in barrel temp, barrel fouling etc and gives positive comparisons to the control load regardless of battery condition or any other variable. On the three occasions I have been increasing charge rates and testing the new batch of powder against the old my control load has only varied by 1 fps. The new batch of powder has increased in velocity but does not seem to be consistent in it's increase and falls far short of velocity compared to the previous batch. I borrowed some 2208 (lot 5554) that I was using a couple of years ago and had load data for and tested as per the above method against my control load and it came up spot on within 1 tenth of a grain of what it used to be. It will be interesting to find out how yours goes. Regards Malcolm.

[Frank Green]

What people don't understand is that the powder is made to military specs.Owr requirements are secondary so you have to make the best of what you get.

One of the BR shooters over here works for a powder maker. He recently told us that the powder when made (I'm leaving out the type and name of the powder for now) can vary up to 3% in the burn rate from one lot to another lot.

I don't know what tolerance ADI has but interesting on the Varget as that's my go to powder for 308win and 223 guns. In my 308w guns IMR4064 is my back up.

I have tried some of the SWP in my 223 guns both bolt and AR15 with no issues. I can't complain about it at least. It's the one with the red label marked Rifle with the number S062-02. See attached pic.

Later, Frank