Old v's new 2209

[PeteFox]

I read lots here about the newer 2209 being a faster powder than the older one.

There may be something in it, but I'm a doubter. I tend to think that handloaders know sweet f a compared to what ADI knows and does. The rumour mill grinds relentlessly in F Class.
I have just opened a new 4kg of 2209 and yes, grain for grain it is faster than my last one by about 50fps for the same load, but that doesn't tell the whole story.

My older jug was opened about a year ago, and over that time it seemed to slow down a bit but why? Weighed load has never changed in that time.

In that time the powder has has had ample opportunity to absorb moisture. I am thinking that the old lot had absorbed some moisture, so in fact what was happening was I was putting less powder in the cases because it was weighing heavier with absorbed moisture.

If I am wrong, I would like to see your evidence to the contrary.

Pete

[Rich4]

I completely agree with your hypothesis

[Pablolig]

[jasmay]

3 lots of RL23, opened and tested at the same time, 1.5grains and around 60fps difference between them….

My last lot of 2208 was slower than my previous batch, new batch slower then than old batcch for the same weight.

Pete, there are those amongst us that also control humidity and temp of loading room and monitor stored powder humidity.

I agree, some shooters make statements that are not backed by data, but there are quite a few who do, and this is replicated across multiple shooters finding the same results across the same lot numbers of powder who intentionally work together to develop these conclusions.

As always though, DYOR.

[KHGS]

For what it is worth, I am using a batch of 2209 that I have had for at least five years. I recently purchased two different lots of the new BTI 2209. Having heard the scuttlebut about dramatic burning rate difference between the old and new, I did a test. I loaded five rounds with the old powder, three rounds of one batch of BTI four rounds of the other batch of BTI 2209 powder. All loads were weighed, same cases, same bullets (180 Berger) and the same primers. I shot these over a MagnetoSpeed. I deleted the sighters, the rest of the string was on speed with a 20fps extreme spread, it was a 60.5 by the way at 600 yards.
Keith H.

[PeteFox]

I have checked the lot numbers on my 2209

Both lots are BTI powders with lot numbers MEM7236 (old lot) and MEM7290.

My load is 51.5gn 2209 - 180 Hybrid - 284Win
Over time from a new barrel to 1180 rounds MV slowly dropped from 2820 to 2780 without altering the load in any way and with the same batch number of primers. accuracy never changed.
The current MV is back at 2820. Funny that.

I control the humidity by keeping the powder sealed tight, I don't leave to in the hopper and it is packed away as soon as I finish.

Bryan Zolkniov on youTube has had a test running on powder humidity for some time - https://youtu.be/d9eTVlcZ07g
If you don't want to watch these are the findings:

"The purpose of this video is to provide an update to the ongoing powder storage testing. The HDPE jug housing RL26 powder has been monitored for over 10 months continually and has been placed in various high humidity environments. A Kestrel Drop has been used to monitor the humidity inside the jug and the data show that there has been no change in humidity in the jug despite it being placed in high humidity environments (e.g., 100% humidity for weeks) and being monitored over all four seasons. The data suggest that you can be confident that the HDPE2 jugs provide protection from the humidity. These findings are consistent with the pharmaceutical industries use of HDPE2 to protect pill-form medications and the repeated finding that HDPE does not absorb water to any appreciable degree. I plan to continue the monitoring."

The takeaway from this is that powder has a high potential to absorb moisture given the minimal amount of time it is exposed to the atmosphere and short of a humidity controlled room, no real way to avoid it.

I also think that changing powder lots may not be the cause of velocity changes.

My next jug of 2209 has the same lot number as the current one - so that will be interesting except the barrel will be worn out and the primer lots will be different the hybrids will be used up and I'll be using new cases ...................... excuse me while I go back down the rabbit hole

Pete

[Pablolig]

For what it is worth, I am using a batch of 2209 that I have had for at least five years. I recently purchased two different lots of the new BTI 2209. Having heard the scuttlebut about dramatic burning rate difference between the old and new, I did a test. I loaded five rounds with the old powder, three rounds of one batch of BTI four rounds of the other batch of BTI 2209 powder. All loads were weighed, same cases, same bullets (180 Berger) and the same primers. I shot these over a MagnetoSpeed. I deleted the sighters, the rest of the string was on speed with a 20fps extreme spread, it was a 60.5 by the way at 600 yards.
Keith H.

7 saum I assume?

[bobped]

Keith,
Did you shoot that 60.5 with the MagnetoSpeed still attached to the barrel? I haven't bothered trying to shoot groups with it attached because I've assumed the weight of the MagnetoSpeed would destroy any grouping capability.

[KHGS]

Keith,
Did you shoot that 60.5 with the MagnetoSpeed still attached to the barrel? I haven't bothered trying to shoot groups with it attached because I've assumed the weight of the MagnetoSpeed would destroy any grouping capability.

Yes I did, and often do. With my 1.250” barrels I see no noticeable change in zero or group size with the Magnetospeed attached.
Keith H.

[bobped]

Thanks Keith,
I'll go off and try it when I get the chance.
Cheers
Bob

[KHGS]

For what it is worth, I am using a batch of 2209 that I have had for at least five years. I recently purchased two different lots of the new BTI 2209. Having heard the scuttlebut about dramatic burning rate difference between the old and new, I did a test. I loaded five rounds with the old powder, three rounds of one batch of BTI four rounds of the other batch of BTI 2209 powder. All loads were weighed, same cases, same bullets (180 Berger) and the same primers. I shot these over a MagnetoSpeed. I deleted the sighters, the rest of the string was on speed with a 20fps extreme spread, it was a 60.5 by the way at 600 yards.
Keith H.

7 saum I assume?

No .280HI. Life is too short to go down the hard to get expensive cases and short barrel life rabbit hole.
Keith H.

[Fire Dog]

For what it is worth, I am using a batch of 2209 that I have had for at least five years. I recently purchased two different lots of the new BTI 2209. Having heard the scuttlebut about dramatic burning rate difference between the old and new, I did a test. I loaded five rounds with the old powder, three rounds of one batch of BTI four rounds of the other batch of BTI 2209 powder. All loads were weighed, same cases, same bullets (180 Berger) and the same primers. I shot these over a MagnetoSpeed. I deleted the sighters, the rest of the string was on speed with a 20fps extreme spread, it was a 60.5 by the way at 600 yards.
Keith H.

7 saum I assume?

No .280HI. Life is too short to go down the hard to get expensive cases and short barrel life rabbit hole.
Keith H.

208AI for sure... Competing against a 7SAUM and the owner complaining about the $3.50@ cost of cases and 1,100-1,200 barrel life!