Physics and a question of stability

[Guest]

Shane,

Do you know thru what distance a 308 recoiles BEFORE the projectile exits the barrel. You make it sound as thou it's a long way when in fact it is minute.
As with ALL aspects of target shooting to achieve small groups you need to be consistant in your application. This applies equally to the successful use of Bipods.
Dare I say that you can obtain equivalent groups from a correctly used Bipod as you can from a tracker type rest.

Barry Davies

[AlanF]

...Dare I say that you can obtain equivalent groups from a correctly used Bipod as you can from a tracker type rest...

Barry,

I dare you to say it on benchrest.com.

Alan

[RAVEN]

Hi lin I think there would be issues with toque as well
the pedestal and flat thin forend negates some of this especially with larger bore cal.

I don’t think you would gain any advantage with a pedestal.
You bet me often enough anyway
TQ mentioned some where about trevs butt rail I have seen TR stocks with almost parallel butt to forend
RB

[Tony Q]

Hi Richard.

The pedistool offers no real advantage for a std rifle, but a bench gun is quite different.

If there wasnt ... they wouldnt use em

Also .. i have no problem with flat or semi flat butts, but i do when they are coupled with a wide tracking benchrest forend and disguised as an FS TR rifle

If FS were shot from a bi pod none of these issues would exist at all. And i understand what Lynn is saying with the car jack, but if they are inventive enought to convert a car jack into a pedistool rest they can sure make a bipod .. much simpler to make.

[RAVEN]

I Know that Tony
Lynn was asking about the inherent design characteristics of the Bench style tracking stock compared to an FS bipod (car jack type) "surly there is a better description that that"???
Those wind up 'A' frame rests are in character with FS
I wouldn’t go there on that 1 TQ
RB

[Tony Q]

I dont wana go there either Richard

And your right Torque is another issue.

Lynn was also refering to the converted scissor or hydraulic 'car jack' that some people convert and use as a pedistool rest.

I have no issues with A frame bipods

[Guest]

Alan

We are comparing FS/FS not FS/BR.
I have both pedestal and bipod and have been using both for a couple of years.
Adam and I both reached the same conclusion -----there is no difference in results one to the other.
we opted for the bipod as it is much easier to use.

Somebody mentioned limiting the weight of the rifle + scope to 7.5 Kg.
I don't have a problem with that but where can I get a bipod of any decency at 1 Kg weight. I have been known to make a few bipods and I would have much trouble in making a decent one under 2.3 Kg---and what about all those shooters who now own a bipod at 2+ Kg --are they going to be told to go purchase another?

Barry Davies

[Tony Q]

Barry, in a hope to clear this issue up:

If a rifle is designed to shoot from a pedistool rest, i.e. a bench or tracker gun, then ithey will shoot better than a std TR rifle.

A TR rifle was not designed to shoot from a pedistool rest and as such offers no advantages shooting it from a rest.

This is the reason some TR rifles are being converted to bench guns to get the accuracy advantage of that design.

For the record...

My Harris Bipods weighs less than 1/2 kg

My standard FS - A frame bipod is just under 1 kg

[Guest]

Tony Q

I know all of that Tony -- I did say "a bipod of any Decency"

A harris bipod? God bless you Tony> You are the Purest of the Pure.

Non the less keep em coming mate.

Barry Davies.

[Tony Q]

LOL Barry

Im not that pure mate .. but i do try to keep my FS guns pure to FS.

'Hug a Harris Today'

[Tony Q]

At least if its limited to 2kg it means i can shelve my design for a 60kg steel A Frame thats 3 feet long and ataches to the entire stock.

Boy ... would that be a tack driver .. I still need to aim it, but the shear mass almost makes it a fixed developmental/experimental platform.

This is why we need controls in place .. to stop me doing this.

But thats what this debate is ment to be ... its what is right and what is outside that envelope? It should have been more simple, but now peoples toes are getting stept on, or those who are pushing the limits are defending themselves for their actions without explaining the basic question i keep asking ..

And again that is ..

Why are people using Benchrest FO type rifles for FS/TR rifles ?

Is it because:

A. They are more accurate than a TR rifle
B. They are more stable .. making them more accurate than a TR rifle
C. They like the look of them.

A & B only applies if you are shooting against someone with the same skill level as you .. but using different styles of rifles.

[bully_eye]

Disclaimer: This posting has no intention to be personal, makes no reference to the rules and no animals were hurt in its making. Wink

This question is not intended to dwell on topics previously discussed but is a geniune request for information. As I don't have a degree in physics can some one kindly explain to me why a rifle with say a 3" fore end supoorted on a rest should be inherently more stable than a rifle with an F Class bipod. Does not a bipod with feet spread to say 15" or more not effectively become a 15" fore end?? That is afterall the spread of the stability of that rifle.

This was a really simple question.... a pure question. Probably a simpler question than the eventual answer. Love the answers pertaining to the question. But does EVERY SINGLE POST have to end up talking about the legalities of a piece of equipment or the rules? If I had any hair left I would be pulling it out.

Michael

[Guest]

Tony

I understand what you are saying mate but I do not believe a pedestal is any better in terms of group size than a bipod -- both being trialed with the same rifle. This may well be the case with BR or FO but in my experience not with FS.
Couple a pedestal with a tracker type stock and you may well see a difference, but not with a TR stock.
I agree with the general concensus---- get rid of tracker type stocks in FS but lets not get too pedantic about it all or we will be back shooting Omarks with military ammo (and there is nought wrong with omarks-- it's a figure of speech )
If there some about who consider they have an advantage by using a pedestal, so be it ---I know they don't so I do not let it worry me.
Barry Davies.

[Tony Q]

have some of mine Michael .. plenty on the floor next to me.

The question was answerd and by many. But your right, it has a bad habit of revolving back to rules and equipment.

[Tony Q]

Hi Barry.

Your right .. get rid of tracker/bench guns from FS thats all. They offer more stability over a TR type rifle and that not fair to FS shooters.

Rest ..Bipod ... it dont matter, if its a Std rifle one or the other is the same.

And that was it .. nothing else, not trying to go back to a Omark and Mill ammo for FS .. just stop FO rifles migrating into it.