Front rests

[Ben C]

Hello Barry,

It seems I have read to much into your comment and I apologise accordingly.

Cheers
Ben

[ned kelly]

G'Day all,
well i finally tried my co-axial SEB rest in F class at the VPRC today...................

Verdict: Bloody Fantastic

IMHO gear stick rests make all of the others obsolete and will eventually rule the day. especially if you like to aim off rather than adjust for windage and elevation

Now I'll have to make some feet for it to stop it sinking

Cheerio Ned

[sixmill]

I think it all needs to be put into perspective, ole mate Ben c's co-ax is worth more than a lot of the rifles on the mound. But he is at the top of his game & shooting a full custom rifle, & is looking for any advantage he can get. The reality is, all you need is some sort of rock solid rest, which is in your budget. I once read a article on 6br.com, where a bloke won the US f-class comp using a $40 midway rest. Each to there own i guess.

[Razer]

Hi.my comment on front rests was not to criticize.As Barry mentioned,seeing some of the gear on the mound makes an impression!
not necessarily a positive one.
We are trying to get shooters on the range and seeing $1000 rests,etc is hardly encouraging to a beginner.As a shooter for over 50 years I have watched the decline in all classes.In last Target magazine Spencer D mentions that over 600 competitors attended the 1979 VRA Queens.The decline in numbers to this present day could be attributed to the ever increasing cost of top-end rifles and associated equipment so as to remain
competative.My two bobs worth is that target shooting should be about
marksmanship not equipment but sadly this is no longer the case.
F/TR is the fastest growing discipline in USA, and will be here," if", we apply the KISS principle and keep entry levels within acceptable constraints.
If we can't get butts on mounds we will lose clubs/ranges and then what?
My email address is razer,my name is Ray Fuller,I shoot with Orange Rifle Club.We are equipping a club rifle for FS as almost half our members now shoot FS. The rifle, naturally, will come with a bipod !
Regards to all. Ray

[AlanF]

Ray,

While I agree that equipment costs are one reason for declining numbers in our sport, there is a multitude of other reasons no less telling e.g. gun laws, and the loss of our close ties with the military. There are many things that used to be easy, and have got harder, and target shooting is one of them. But F-Class is helping to turn the tide - if we are prepared to make the effort we can continue to grow. Congratulations to your club for getting a F-Class rifle for new shooters. It will prove to be a great investment.

Regarding pedestal type front rests, you do not need to pay $1000 - I have been shooting competively in F-Open for 5 years using a Caldwell "The Rock" rest retailing for under $200. In F-Open, the quality and in particular the "state of tune" of your equipment is important, but it can still be done on a budget.

However in F-Std, with the current size of the 6 ring, there is very little advantage in having equipment that will shoot better than about 0.5MOA. In other words, you can't buy automatic success by spending big on your gear. I remember the things that were being said last year when Ben Curley used a BR style rifle to win F-Std in the North Queensland Queens. Firstly his setup was fully compliant with the rules, and secondly he probably would have won with any well-tuned setup, simply because he shot better than anyone else in the conditions.

Alan

[ned kelly]

G'day All,
for those who are new to this forum, FYI, I shoot a .223 Rem700 second hand FS rifle in FO and use my BR gear that I've slowly acquired over more than a decade of shooting so I am DEFINATELY NOT a cheque book operator by any means.

I'd like to think I've got a bit of skill from years of competition and not bought with a credit card overnight.

So please do not make assumptions about me or my gear ok?

Cheerio Ned

[AlanF]

Ned,

Sorry if my comments appeared to take the gloss off your purchase of a new SEB. To be honest, I would like one myself, because I'm sure it is easier to use than mine. But mine works well enough even if it looks pretty ordinary, so my next major purchase will probably be something other than a co-axial, possibly a bore scope .

See you Sunday.

Alan

[pjifl]

Just a few comments on rests and costs - and this is not aimed at anyone specific.

Rifleshooters seem to really like bitching about gear and perceived advantage and its mostly all crap. But some money does buy points.

The simple truth is that it takes a lot of money to have any rifle built up these days unless you know the right person. A lot of TR gear is handed down within a family or friends but new stuff costs a fortune. Those who bitch about the supposed costs of F gear are way out of touch with the price of TR gear.

Then comes the accessories.

Price a shooting coat, spotting scope, and scope stand, Sighting elements and you will see that its MORE expensive than basic stands because none of that is really necessary for F shooting. If you dont know the price of a top of the line shooting coat then make some enquiries. And yes - people do buy them because they DO give an advantage (not just perceived) and cannot be made with a big effort by the average person like a front stand. They can also be cheaper than a good bipod !

I dont begrudge anyone a joystick rest and still dont think they give any real advantage. But, like quality spotting scopes, I am sure they are a joy to use and I do want to see people enjoy their sport.

Peter Smith.

[ned kelly]

G'Day Alan,
Gosh, it wasn't directed at you but it was more at those people who make quick assumptions that I was perhaps buying my way to a good score in an equipment arms race (which I'm sure you have seen before!)

As any smart shooter would know it is trigger time and practice at all ranges and in all weather conditions that makes for good overall performances.

And FWIW, the SEB was bought to shoot SR BR but I couldn't help myself and had to try it in practice the other day at WISC!

Hopefully I'll see you sunday!

cheerio Ned

[Barry T]

Hello members, if you saw my shooting gear you would probably laugh .my gear list: 2 black pencil cases filled with white sand for rear bricks,rear bunny ears with shoe laces tied around the ears to keep them stiff and a 2 metre peice of green cavas to lay on, home made tri pode made by a freind at work.a second hand 308 savage fvss,second hand tasco 24 power scope, and the same for the second hand ruger 223 mk2 vt. all my gear is second hand or home made. i have found that money does not talk.any how you go shooting to enjoy your self and try your best with what you have.i have seen top gear betten on the mould with home made gear many times at our range on sundays.

just my two bobs worth. from barry t

[AlanF]

...a 2 metre peice of green cavas to lay on...

That's extravagant Barry - I use a piece of second-hand carpet

Alan

[whippy]

Hello members, if you saw my shooting gear you would probably laugh .my gear list: 2 black pencil cases filled with white sand for rear bricks,rear bunny ears with shoe laces tied around the ears to keep them stiff and a 2 metre peice of green cavas to lay on, home made tri pode made by a freind at work.a second hand 308 savage fvss,second hand tasco 24 power scope, and the same for the second hand ruger 223 mk2 vt. all my gear is second hand or home made. i have found that money does not talk.any how you go shooting to enjoy your self and try your best with what you have.i have seen top gear betten on the mould with home made gear many times at our range on sundays.

just my two bobs worth. from barry t

well said barry, believe me all my gear for shooting is low budget stuff , but it still shoots a lot better than i can. all the expensive stuff would not help me at all. and besides i shoot for the enjoymennt of it and the mateship on the range. not to be a world beater.

[ned kelly]

G'Day All,
lets try to put this into proper perspective..........if we can.

In order to get a real steady platform for LR shooting, you need good gear, whether it is home made or not is immaterial. Necessity is the the mother of invention......and scrounging! I've seen some really good (and sometimes rough but very effective), home made shooting rests and rear bags over the last 12 years.

But I've also seen too many shooters let down by equipment that is inadequate and as a consequence handicaps their scores. I'm a competitve person and want my gear to be EFFECTIVE and since I buy gear to use in BR, I also try to use it in F class as well.........but only if it works. It has to be well made and proven by others in competition, otherwise I reckon I'm wasting my hard earned $$$. I'd rather buy more bullets and barrels than waste dollars on gimmicky gear that doesn't work.

I dont have the tooling to make my own gear so I buy the best I can afford (second hand if possible) and practice with it. The time I've spent shooting on the mound/bench is THE MOST EFFECTIVE way of improving my scores. Not by buying my way to the top.

And I've taken much delight over the last 12 years of competitive shooting by beating other fancier equiped shooters with my less-than-state-of-the-art-hand-me-downs and second hand rifles. It is only recently that I personally have been able to spoil myself a little and have the shoe on the other foot.

Nevertheless and more importantly, you have to be gracious enough to congratulate those who are better shooters on the day.

Equipment does not make the shooter but good solid equipment WITH good shooting technique, practice and precision made ammo.............will.

So, now let's try to be open minded, look at all opinions offered in this forum, weigh their value and usefulness to you and if they are not your cup of tea, so be it; they might just be someone else's cuppa.............

Cheerio Ned

[Cameron Mc]

G'Day All,
lets try to put this into proper perspective..........if we can.............................

...I buy the best I can afford (second hand if possible) and practice with it. The time I've spent shooting on the mound/bench is THE MOST EFFECTIVE way of improving my scores. Not by buying my way to the top.

And I've taken much delight over the last 12 years of competitive shooting by beating other fancier equiped shooters with my less-than-state-of-the-art-hand-me-downs and second hand rifles. It is only recently that I personally have been able to spoil myself a little and have the shoe on the other foot.

Nevertheless and more importantly, you have to be gracious enough to congratulate those who are better shooters on the day.

Equipment does not make the shooter but good solid equipment WITH good shooting technique, practice and precision made ammo.............will.

So, now let's try to be open minded, look at all opinions offered in this forum, weigh their value and usefulness to you and if they are not your cup of tea, so be it; they might just be someone else's cuppa.............

Cheerio Ned

Agree Ned. Buy the best you can afford. There is nothing wrong with using fancy gear. I don't get off my A and work extra OT just so my kids will benefit. Nothing wrong with spoiling ones self occasionally is there?

Like Ned says, it will be the better shooter who wins, not the gear.

Cameron

[John E]

If all you blokes concentrated on having the rifle right, and pulling good shots, you would all be much better off!
I'm sick of hearing people whingeing about pedestal front rests in fstd -- and I don't use one.
The same people who obviously use a bipod, conveniently or ignorantly,overlook the fact that they can have a 2kg weight advantage over anyone using a pedestal front rest --- have a look at SSRs -- a rifle can weigh a maximum of 8kg including scope, and when used with a bipod, the complete rig can weigh a maximum of 10kg. This means that if you use a pedestal rest, your rifle can be no more than 8kg. With a bipod attached, the complete rig can weigh a total of 10 kg.
If you believe that weight gives you an advantage ( I don't ), then the bipod has a 2kg advantage over the pedestal rest, and I don't hear you whingeing about that! GET OVER IT!
I've just finished 3 days of shooting, where all manner of stock configurations and front rests were used in FSTD, and I'm not going to swap my Davies bipod for any pedestal rest. GET OVER IT!
As to the '79 Queens', I was there too, Ray. In the preceding years, we were used to getting free ammunition from the Government, free rail passes to get to the Range, and the target dimensions were , in keeping with the capabilities of the .303, generous, but when shot at with the new .762, you could not get out of the bulleyes eye, so the target dimensions were tightened up, the .303 became uncompetitive and redundant, and we had to pay for ammo. Those who didn't go with the flow simply gave up, and that is when the numbers started to drop off dramatically. The Omark was on the scene, but it was no better than a properly tuned no.4 , M17, "M98, etc, but perhaps there was a perception that it was, so the others gradually disappeared, along with a lot of their owners.
If anyone believes that a pedestal front rest will give him an advantage over a bipod, then he can buy one for a similar price, so what's the problem? The option is open to him. Personally, I'll stick to the bipod --- it's easier to carry to the mound.

John