6.5 x 284 build

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saum2
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6.5 x 284 build

#1 Postby saum2 » Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:21 am

I'm thinking of building a 6.5 x 284. I have new Lap brass. What would be the ultimate barrel twist, barrel length and bullet choice readily available. Is the Sierra 150gn projectile in 6.5mm an option?
I have several powders to choose from. What speeds would it achieve to be optimum for bullet BC ?
I know it's been said that they are barrel burners but so is the SAUM.
What are your recommendations for best accuracy?
Or, is 6.5x47 a better choice?
Geoff
Just found another post on the subject. But if others have input that would be great.

bruce moulds
Posts: 2778
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

Re: 6.5 x 284 build

#2 Postby bruce moulds » Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:01 am

hopefully alan frazer will chip in.
he probably has more experience with this than many.
i would suggest 2209 as a go to for accuracy, but 2213sc and ar2217 will give more speed and possibly excellent accuracy.
2217 reportedly gives far better barrel life.
be prepared to rebarrel at 900 to 1200 shots, and chase the lands weekly.
2209 seems to work with 140ish gn bullets at around 2950 fps.
the 6.5 super lr works around 2900 with less powder (10gn) and much better barrel life.
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880
http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

AlanF
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Location: Maffra, Vic

Re: 6.5 x 284 build

#3 Postby AlanF » Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:47 am

Geoff,

I used a 6.5-284 between about 2004 and 2011 in F-Open before changing to 7mm Shehane as the preferred calibre. One of the reasons for changing was barrel life, and the other was the increase in choices of high BC 7mm projectiles such as the Berger 180s, which gave them a clear ballistic advantage. With the new high BC 6.5mm offerings from Sierra, Berger and others the 6.5-284 can now be loaded with similar performance (in the wind) to the 284. The SAUM will still be significantly better ballistically, but they will probably still cost more in terms of running expenses, and have significantly more recoil.

Regarding twist rates, 8 twist is the norm, and Berger specify 8 or faster for their 153.5gn offering, but I would give yourself a margin of error and go 7.5 twist. My go to powder was VV N165, not currently available in Australia, but you could try any of 2209, 2213SC or 2217. With the 140gn projectiles I heard of successful use of all 3. While not always easy to get, some of the Alliant Reloder powders would no doubt be good also. The only useful load information I can give you is 51.2gn of 2213SC behind a 142gn SMK gave me about 2950fps in a 30" barrel with respectable brass life (the usual cautions apply to this information).

Hope it goes well. Keep us updated!

Tim L
Posts: 615
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Location: Townsville

Re: 6.5 x 284 build

#4 Postby Tim L » Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:10 am

If the 6.5x284 is what you want to go for the info Bruce has provided is all good stuff. To answer your questions it all really comes down to what projectile you want to shoot. The 6.5x284 got it's rep as a barrel burner when140gn was the upper end of 6.5 projectiles. How it will fair running 150s is a question for someone who has done it. If you want to try them check the berger twist rate calculator for the twist required.
As for other options, I'm running a 6.5 SLR, 1:8.5 with berger 140 hybrids, and 2209. current round count is 1700 and it just shot the NQ pennents match giving nothing away in accuracy. Necked down and turned 308 palmer brass holds up very well providing everything the 6.5x284 canwith a 140gn projectile.

The other option is the 6.5 creedmore. Factory brass is available, with sr pockets if that's what you want, and it too gives good barrel life.

Gyro
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Location: New Zealand

Re: 6.5 x 284 build

#5 Postby Gyro » Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:33 am

I would take a punt on the new Berger 144's long before trying the 153.5's because I would be fully expecting them to go betterer, or at least more easily. A high BC aint everything !!!

Even the 140's go really well. Great cartridge ...

bruce moulds
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Re: 6.5 x 284 build

#6 Postby bruce moulds » Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:42 pm

if the 6.5 is advantaged over the 7mm, it is these 2 things.
you can shoot faster due to lower recoil in the same gun wt due to reduced recoil.
also a product of less recoil is that the 6.5 is easier to shoot accurately than a 7mm.
although wind reading is in its infancy in fclass now, at some time it will become de rigeur if you want to win, and then we might all go back to a smaller cased 6.5.
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

Tim L
Posts: 615
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Location: Townsville

Re: 6.5 x 284 build

#7 Postby Tim L » Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:18 pm

bruce moulds wrote:.
although wind reading is in its infancy in fclass now,
bruce.

Hmmm!
Not sure what you're trying to say there Bruce.

Craig McGowan shot a possible at the NQRA Queens and only dropped 1 point in the lead up.
I'm sure hearing that missing the 6 ring twice during the WARA queens is considered as infantile will be water off a ducks back to Albert
Stuie Braund dropping 3 at SARA and Rod Davies doing likewise at Vic and Matt Paroz following suit at Nationals clearly shows the infancy in their wind reading.

bruce moulds
Posts: 2778
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

Re: 6.5 x 284 build

#8 Postby bruce moulds » Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:20 am

tim,
when the majority of shooters force the governing body to shoot 3 to a target bisley style, and those scores continue i will be more inclined to agree with you.
at the moment, most are even scared of a delay on electronic targets.
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

Gyro
Posts: 637
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Location: New Zealand

Re: 6.5 x 284 build

#9 Postby Gyro » Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:18 am

True Bruce but it goes without saying that a good F Class shooter absolutely needs to have wind reading skills, which comes from learning the craft. Whether the good TR shooters are any better at it is another question ?


Dunno about u but I can score 5's very bloody easily in the wind !

bruce moulds
Posts: 2778
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

Re: 6.5 x 284 build

#10 Postby bruce moulds » Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:31 am

Gyro wrote:True Bruce but it goes without saying that a good F Class shooter absolutely needs to have wind reading skills, which comes from learning the craft. Whether the good TR shooters are any better at it is another question ?


Dunno about u but I can score 5's very bloody easily in the wind !


we can all score 5s.
i rest my case.
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

AlanF
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Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:22 pm
Location: Maffra, Vic

Re: 6.5 x 284 build

#11 Postby AlanF » Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:17 am

Comparing wind reading skills between TR and F-Class shooters is hard to do, because TR shooters have to contend with more challenges in terms of optics and holding steady. They also have lighter rifles, thinner barrels and heavier triggers (than F-Open and F/TR). The major handicap though is shared by F-Std which is ballistics i.e. .308 and 155gn projectiles.

You would expect however, that F-Class shooters generally should find it easier to learn how to read wind because they will benefit from getting more reliable feedback because of the higher precision of their shooting. When a TR shooter gets a wide shot, they are more likely to be unsure about the cause - was it me, was it the wind? etc.

Our range has just closed (again) so having too much time on my hands, I'll modify my simulator to at least see how much TR and F-Std scores should be affected by their ballistic disadvantage, and see how that compares with real world score data. That could be taken further with some estimates of how shooting precision is affected by things like optical sights etc., possibly good enough to support an "informed opinion" on the subject :D .

saum2
Posts: 791
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:22 am

Re: 6.5 x 284 build

#12 Postby saum2 » Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:34 pm

AlanF wrote:Geoff,

I used a 6.5-284 between about 2004 and 2011 in F-Open before changing to 7mm Shehane as the preferred calibre. One of the reasons for changing was barrel life, and the other was the increase in choices of high BC 7mm projectiles such as the Berger 180s, which gave them a clear ballistic advantage. With the new high BC 6.5mm offerings from Sierra, Berger and others the 6.5-284 can now be loaded with similar performance (in the wind) to the 284. The SAUM will still be significantly better ballistically, but they will probably still cost more in terms of running expenses, and have significantly more recoil.

Regarding twist rates, 8 twist is the norm, and Berger specify 8 or faster for their 153.5gn offering, but I would give yourself a margin of error and go 7.5 twist. My go to powder was VV N165, not currently available in Australia, but you could try any of 2209, 2213SC or 2217. With the 140gn projectiles I heard of successful use of all 3. While not always easy to get, some of the Alliant Reloder powders would no doubt be good also. The only useful load information I can give you is 51.2gn of 2213SC behind a 142gn SMK gave me about 2950fps in a 30" barrel with respectable brass life (the usual cautions apply to this information).

Hope it goes well. Keep us updated!


Alan, Just wondering about recoil felt, is it comparable to a 284W given it would use more powder
or less like a 6.5x47.
Geoff

pjifl
Posts: 815
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:15 pm
Location: Innisfail, Far North QLD.

Re: 6.5 x 284 build

#13 Postby pjifl » Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:34 pm

Because I now need a table, I went back to a 6.5 (139 grain projectile) because I was worried about handling the recoil of large 7mm. Investigated various cartridges.

Then upgraded again to a 284 (180 grainers) half expecting recoil might be a problem.

But in all honesty, I do not notice much difference in recoil between the 284 and 6.5. Except possibly for the 6.5x47 but even then not as much difference as I expected.

I think people worry too much about recoil.

For some reason, there are some shooters who will not bring their rifles up to legal max weight. This is a huge factor in felt recoil.

Peter Smith.

Gyro
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Location: New Zealand

Re: 6.5 x 284 build

#14 Postby Gyro » Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:54 pm

https://bisonballistics.com/calculators/recoil

Run some numbers with that link saum2. I know when I crossed from the 6.5x284 ( 140g bullet at 3000 fps ) to a 284 Ackley ( 180g bullet at 2850 fps ) it was very noticeable how much more the gun whacked me !! This was using a 10kg F Open rifle in a "free recoil" setup off rests.

So much to write about re what determines how the gun will behave during recoil .....

The 6.5x284 used to rule in F Open competition. That fact alone tells u it's a very good cartridge choice. Now the 7mm platform rules.

With some of the hi BC 6.5 bullets now available ( NOT the ELD's ! ) the 6.5 option looks bloody good to me. The barrel burner part may or may not bother some.

AlanF
Posts: 7156
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:22 pm
Location: Maffra, Vic

Re: 6.5 x 284 build

#15 Postby AlanF » Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:56 pm

Geoff,

Just read Peters and Gyro's posts, and my views are similar. In my experience its not the felt recoil that matters so much as the torque recoil and general rifle behaviour in the front and rear rest. The lighter the recoil the easier to keep shot to shot consistency. That said, the 6.5 with 140s definitely gives a lighter (but sharper) push than a 284. I think its got to do with powder burn rate and bullet weight mainly. I never used 150gn class projectiles at maximum load, but I'd imagine they would tend towards 284 recoil characteristics.

Regarding felt recoil, using an F-Open rifle with the full 10Kg weight allowance, then its not hard to develop techniques (such as free recoil) that virtually eliminate any undesirable impact on the shoulder.


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