Scopes - FFP or SFP for F Class

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jrobbs
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Scopes - FFP or SFP for F Class

#1 Postby jrobbs » Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:37 am

Hi,

Thanks for the add to the forum.

I’m new to the sport and was wondering what the opinion out there is in relation to FFP V SFP scopes for F Class.

I use a SFP for 50m bench rest.

Also what is a good size scope to begin with. I’m currently in the process of buying a .223.

Thanks

Jr

Trevor Rhodes
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Re: Scopes - FFP or SFP for F Class

#2 Postby Trevor Rhodes » Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:36 pm

A scope in 1/8s of a minute, min of 24 power, cost min $1800 and my choose is fine cross hairs with a dot in the middle.

Tim N
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Re: Scopes - FFP or SFP for F Class

#3 Postby Tim N » Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:46 pm

SFP scopes are fine for F class, the fine reticule at high power is best- the FFP is more for for sniper stuff - no disrespect meant by that comment.
I don’t know if anyone uses a FFP scope in F class.
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC

AlanF
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Re: Scopes - FFP or SFP for F Class

#4 Postby AlanF » Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:59 pm

Very few use FFP in F-Class, nor mil adjustments. We don't need to range-find on human torsos, in fact we don't need to range-find at all (targets are at known distances). And, everyone talks MOA when discussing come-ups and wind strength. Get a scope with plenty of adjustment both Vert and Hor (a 30mm tube usually ensures that). I agree with what Trev says re: magnification, click value and quality. Better to buy a used expensive scope than a new cheaper one. Reticule is an individual thing - depends on whether you hold centre or hold off, and individual preference - I personally don't like clutter with lines and things that are never used.

Gyro
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Re: Scopes - FFP or SFP for F Class

#5 Postby Gyro » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:05 pm

Crikey, seems FFP is a total no-go here. FFP is the best in my F Class world. But I always use the reticles horizontal hash marks ( in one MOA ) for all wind hold offs.

I once briefly tried a Vortex GE and had real trouble trying to see the very fine reticle. The NF comp is the same and lots of shooters use them so it’s an individual thing but an all-round scope that will cover all conditions is not a hi powered one with a super-fine reticle to my mind. That applies to my F Class shooting anyway as I can’t place shots any better than the target detail I can resolve at say 24 power.

bruce moulds
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Re: Scopes - FFP or SFP for F Class

#6 Postby bruce moulds » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:34 pm

having a reticle with hash marks WILL cause trouble.
don't ask me how i know this.
ffp reticles get thicker as magnification increases, the opposite of what you want.
in fact they are avoided on dangerous game rifles for the same reason.
at lowest power, they want the thickest reticle.
scope makers market to the masses, and the masses think cluttered reticles give you an edge.
simpler lets your mind be where it needs to be.
mil scopes do not adjust as fine as moa if you go for 1/8 clicks.
1/8 moa is a big edge in aiming dead on to get the group centered. particularly for vertical.
while some aim off, winding and aiming dead on is to be encouraged if you want to achieve max success in the long run.
bruce.
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DannyS
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Re: Scopes - FFP or SFP for F Class

#7 Postby DannyS » Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:16 pm

Sorry Bruce, I like vertical and horizontal hash marks, if visibility isn’t good then I adjust the magnification so that the hash lines are on a scoring ring, which gives a very accurate aim. I can also use them to measure the distance from the centre to the spotter.

Cheers Danny
You might as well be yourself, everyone else is already taken.

PeteFox
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Re: Scopes - FFP or SFP for F Class

#8 Postby PeteFox » Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:41 pm

bruce moulds wrote:mil scopes do not adjust as fine as moa if you go for 1/8 clicks.
bruce.


Not an accurate statement
Mil scopes adjust as fine as the click value allows. My S&B scope has 0.025 Mil per click which is 2.5mm/100m or approx 1/12 MOA and its a pain in the arse as its just too fine . A 0.05 Mil scope is approx 1/6 moa is less of a pain.

The thing about FFP scopes is that the hold offs are accurate at all magnifications, so all those annoying hash marks actually mean something. SFP scopes are fine for hold offs if you dial the magnification that matches the reticle, but if the mirage is running and you need to dial back the mag then your reticle based hold offs are just a guess

Pete

KHGS
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Re: Scopes - FFP or SFP for F Class

#9 Postby KHGS » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:14 pm

For what it is worth, I don't like a fine reticule, I prefer an uncluttered reticule, I like my reticule in the SFP, I like 1/8 minute movement. I like 32 to 42 power. I wind mean wind on and aim off, I don't often aim dead on and rarely wind for wind once I have started my string, I often shoot as fast as my scorer can call the value which is why I do not favour fine reticules, too slow for me to acquire the target quickly and accurately. Having said all that, my favourite 'scope is a fixed 22 power milldot reticule (heavy crosshair) 34mm tube US Optics scope, the glass is fantastic and it has 1/4 min movement. So I guess it could be said that while 'scopes for F Class are a personal choice there are certain required parameters that should be followed regardless of shooting style. The no no's for me are superfine reticules, millradium movement and FFP reticules, I have had great service from my Nightforce 'scopes which tick all the boxes for me.
Keith H.

wsftr
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Re: Scopes - FFP or SFP for F Class

#10 Postby wsftr » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:21 pm

bruce moulds wrote:having a reticle with hash marks WILL cause trouble.

while some aim off, winding and aiming dead on is to be encouraged if you want to achieve max success in the long run.
bruce.

Really?

Gyro
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Re: Scopes - FFP or SFP for F Class

#11 Postby Gyro » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:50 pm

A scope I really rate is the NF SFP 5.5 - 22 x 56 with the MOAR-T reticle. Had one and loved it. Have a March FFP 5 - 40 x 56 with the FMA-2 reticle now and love that more ! Both those scopes have 'heavy' reticles i.e. about 4x thicker than both the Vortex GE and NF Comp.

In good viewing conditions and easy light winds I could maybe cope with the last two mentioned scopes because you have time, but in hard conditions a really fine reticle just creates another difficulty to my mind. That's just me because my philosophy is to always be prepared for the worst conditions,because at Trentham they normally come!

Wal86
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Re: Scopes - FFP or SFP for F Class

#12 Postby Wal86 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:21 pm

Ill second the March 5 - 40 x 56 FFP awesome scope im running 3 of em..

argh
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Re: Scopes - FFP or SFP for F Class

#13 Postby argh » Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:42 pm

Wal86 wrote:Ill second the March 5 - 40 x 56 FFP awesome scope im running 3 of em..

FWIW
The problem isnt our scopes its the black eye saw of a target we shoot at.. All these discussions around costs/new shooters, try looking at this target with inferior optics, the scopes most new comers use... They are then told you need to spend $2500 so you can see what your shooting at.. :roll:


One reason why we have gone back to using a white super centre. Like most clubs we have a lot of older members with eye sight thats not what it used to he. The black cross hairs on black target is difficult, the white super centre as an aiming mark helps, and doesnt appear to be against the SSR's

SFP scopes are not ideal as most above have said, the cross hairs are too thick for accurate aiming at higher magnification.
Hash marks, personal preference but i had my scope made with with a reticule to suit me, at 24 power they are 2 MOA hash marks both vertical and horizontal. Guess what - at 50 power they are as close to 1 MOA as you can estimate visually. I'm with Danny, if the super centre is blown out, my 1MOA hash marks bracket the 5 ring pretty close at most ranges - like apature sights, its easy to bracket a circle in the rest of the reticle. The 1 MOA marks at 50 power are useful, and at lesser magnifications if i lower the magnification due to mirrage, i hold off on rings (if you can still see them) or use the dials.

Just my opinion, but what i ha e works for me.

Cheers
Adrian

scott/r
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Re: Scopes - FFP or SFP for F Class

#14 Postby scott/r » Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:54 am

As you can tell from all these different ideas on scopes, my opinion is that you need to walk away from scopes and use peeps, as these guys can't really work it out. :D :D
Scott.
Last edited by scott/r on Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Rich4
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Re: Scopes - FFP or SFP for F Class

#15 Postby Rich4 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:03 am

scott/r wrote:As you can tell from all these different ideas on scopes, my opinion is that you need to walk from scopes and use peeps, as these guys can't really work it out. :D :D
Scott.

Truer words were never spoken :lol:


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