Lee collet question

Get or give advice on equipment, reloading and other technical issues.

Moderator: Mod

Message
Author
Tim N
Posts: 1125
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:18 pm
Location: Branxton NSW

Lee collet question

#1 Postby Tim N » Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:11 pm

Hi All
I have started using my new collet die for my no turn saum, it sizes the neck about 2mm down from the top of the neck which leaves a slightly bell shape which will help when seating the projectile.
I’m not sure if that’s how they are meant to work?
Is this what normally happens?

The other question is about modifying a lee die.
I have a 204 “short” which is a 204 reamer run in to suit a 222 case.
Can the lee collet be shortened to suit?

Thanks for pending answers
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC

dgeorge52
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:02 pm

Re: Lee collet question

#2 Postby dgeorge52 » Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:24 pm

hi Tim....do you mean from top of case ..i.e 2mm down from top of case mouth....did you setup the die first...doesn't sound like it....sounds like die has NOT come down far enough...

Rich4
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:33 pm
Location: Chinchilla

Re: Lee collet question

#3 Postby Rich4 » Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:56 pm

Maybe pictures to help with the diagnosis? Shortening the collet is no problem provided you don’t cut into the fingers, the problem is the die body has a step to retain the collet, you may require a spacer under the cap to allow it to work lower in the body

Tim N
Posts: 1125
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:18 pm
Location: Branxton NSW

Re: Lee collet question

#4 Postby Tim N » Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:58 pm

The die sizes the majority of the neck but doesn’t size the last couple of mm near the case mouth.
I’ll try some pics tomorrow.
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC

Rich4
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:33 pm
Location: Chinchilla

Re: Lee collet question

#5 Postby Rich4 » Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:36 pm

Not normal, I suspect your cases are longer than the collet, try dropping a washer thicker than 2mm over a case and resize again, should identify the problem

PGB
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:04 pm

Re: Lee collet question

#6 Postby PGB » Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:37 pm

gday Tim, sounds like your case neck must be going through the collet area. you can try a washer over you case once its in the shell holder, but wind the die up to suit. this will let you know if the case neck is protruding to far. I do this with 223 and swede collet dies to reduce the full neck being crimped. make sure you have some good grease (moly) on the internal working area of the cone or you will damage cases. Decapping mandrel can be polished down .001 or .0005 at a time, this will save the collet from being over worked, but get a mic and make sure the mandrel is uniform the full length. you can have spacers, washers whatever thickness you like. cheers Pete

pjifl
Posts: 721
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:15 pm
Location: Innisfail, Far North QLD.

Re: Lee collet question

#7 Postby pjifl » Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:56 pm

Tim N

The die not sizing the very end of the neck sounds all wrong. Maybe I am not interpreting the problem properly.

I was about to use a modeling program to show various mods to a collet die. BUT Mr Microsofts W10 updates seem to have made the software unusable. I HATE MICROSOFT WITH A PASSION ONLY EQUAL TO RIMFIRES.

Perhaps this will help but not a patch on diagrams.

The actual collet part may be pushed out through the top once the threaded cap is removed.

1/ Its length must be such that the case held in a shellholder nearly reaches full depth. Note that as fingers close, the cone shoulder shape can still push down on the shoulder. You can simply shorten the collet by facing off the base or parting a piece off the base. The metal turns and parts OK. Be careful to only remove small amounts at a time. It is much harder to lengthen the collet.

2/ If the collet base is now too short to protrude from the die body enough, you may need to increase the length of the bottom rebate. No serious precision is required.

3/ After holding the collet in a chuck, the fingers may now be squeezed in a bit too much. You may need to spread them slightly.

4/ You may lengthen the collet but this becomes fiddly. People suggest a higher 'washer' over the shellholder but this is awkward and slow. You may either part off the bottom of the collet above the bottom rebate and make a new longer bottom bit. It does not need to be attached. Or You may part the collet above the rebate and make a spacer ring to fill this gap.

5/ It is important that the mandrel is not too long. Long enough to push out the primer but not hit the shell base. This can be adjusted by placing spacers under the end screw cap or drilling a deeper pocket in the bottom of the end cap.


Once the position is found in the press, I usually mark with a fine felt pen a mark on the colet holder thread, the locking ring, and the press all lined up. The original locking ring leaves much to be desired.

I know all of this sounds like a lot of work and it is not for everyone but is really not hard with a lathe on hand. It saves having to wait ages for special dies and experiments can then proceed immediately.

Often on eBay you will find collet dies for strange cartridges going cheap. To some extent, you can mix parts from different collet dies as long as the die will take the diameter of the case and the mandrel is of correct size.

The standard of manufacture of these Lee Collet dies is mediocre in some ways but once you have one working and adjusted nicely they do give very accurate results because of the clever design.

Peter Smith.

Tim L
Posts: 553
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 7:11 pm
Location: Townsville

Re: Lee collet question

#8 Postby Tim L » Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:53 pm

Tim, I didn't get that issue from the one you sent me. It's certainly not normal. It sounds like the top of the neck is passing right through the collet and not being sized. Just make sure the bottom of the collet isn't doing anything to the top of the shoulder.
I'm home on Tuesday and Ill strip the die and measure the case holder and collet heights.

ben_g
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:37 pm

Re: Lee collet question

#9 Postby ben_g » Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:20 am

Hi Tim.

I have sized a couple hundred cases now with the collet you sent me. It is sizing all the way to the top of the neck for me.
I’m using the shellholder that came with the die.

Let me know if you need dimensions of any part of the die seeing as they should be exactly the same.

Tim N
Posts: 1125
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:18 pm
Location: Branxton NSW

Re: Lee collet question

#10 Postby Tim N » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:13 pm

This should explain it

5269F59A-817A-45EA-838D-A8042C3F3D64.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC

pjifl
Posts: 721
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:15 pm
Location: Innisfail, Far North QLD.

Re: Lee collet question

#11 Postby pjifl » Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:52 pm

That is really weird.

Try setting the die to be a bit more aggressive - ie a bit more force needed for the press to go overcentre. If the problem persists, maybe the collet is defective. There is no way that short neck can be passing entirely past the collet fingers.

Is there any reduction of the neck end at all ?

Peter Smith.

Rich4
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:33 pm
Location: Chinchilla

Re: Lee collet question

#12 Postby Rich4 » Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:27 pm

That completely depends on how long the neck surface of the collet is, I find it hard to imagine more pressure helping as it’s sizing below the flare, that’s why I suggested temporarily using a washer to raise the collet compared to the case during its compression, or disassemble and slip in a case in a shell holder
Cheers Rich

pjifl
Posts: 721
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:15 pm
Location: Innisfail, Far North QLD.

Re: Lee collet question

#13 Postby pjifl » Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:56 pm

I have never seen a Lee Collet with finger contact area short enough to allow the neck to extend past the collet.

My suggestion to try more force was based on the possibility that the fingers are simply not contacting over the full length because they are not straightening enough and need more closure force to become parallel. This does seem unlikely - but the whole behavior is a puzzle.

Yes, dissassemble the die - hold a case in the shellholder and insert as far as it will go in the collet and watch where it ends up. You will soon know if the neck could possibly protrude from the collet.

Peter Smith.

KHGS
Posts: 756
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:46 am
Location: Cowra NSW
Contact:

Re: Lee collet question

#14 Postby KHGS » Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:21 pm

There has to be a machining fault in the top of the collett.
Keith H

Tim N
Posts: 1125
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:18 pm
Location: Branxton NSW

Re: Lee collet question

#15 Postby Tim N » Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:26 pm

How’s this?

24FBA5D0-CBDB-4DBA-A613-100568335F4B.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC


Return to “Equipment & Technical”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 17brno and 12 guests