Mound Setup 101

Get or give advice on equipment, reloading and other technical issues.

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6.5x55ai
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:21 pm
Location: Waikato NZ (Ex Tyabb)

Re: Mound Setup 101

#16 Postby 6.5x55ai » Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:57 am

I am just changing from FO to FTR (284 mothballed for now) so my opinion is that of a learner and I am still experimenting, and noting the opinion of much better others.

I use a SEB Joypod on its smooth SEB front mat. I hold the stick knob very lightly between thumb and forefinger from a side onish position. I shoot virtually free recoil and at the time of shot going off the knob slips easily out of my hold. The sight picture looks good at the start of the recoil.

I am getting vg results but as I said still experimenting.

RDavies
Posts: 2021
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:23 pm
Location: Singleton NSW

Re: Mound Setup 101

#17 Postby RDavies » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:52 am

the most common mistake I see with mound set up is rear bag spacing.
Often when the fore end is up against the fire end stop, the rear edge of the butt is too far forward or rearward on the rear bag.
If the rear bag is too far forward, when the rifle moves back under recoil, the hand grip area ends up contacting the bag ears which can lift up the rear end under recoil and cause vertical. Otherwise the shooters hand on the grip ends up hitting the bag ears which ruins your concentration..
If the rear bag is too far back, the recoil pad area digs into ( or bounces off) the back of the bag causing inconsistent recoil, and hence more vertical
Last edited by RDavies on Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

RDavies
Posts: 2021
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Location: Singleton NSW

Re: Mound Setup 101

#18 Postby RDavies » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:55 am

Another common mistake is to use too many spacer plates under the rear bag to lift it up to the desired height. The shooter often ends up with too many thin boards which warp, then start to rock and roll on each other causing excessive movement of the rear bag.
A cheap alternative is a simple paving block which is not only a nice, stable weight, but also a bit thicker where needed. If not a paving block, at least just using one or two thicker boards which are less likely to warp.

Most mounds in Australia are very grassy and bouncy, so the previously mentioned spiked rear plates are a cheap fix. Mine is just a simple plate with 3x 50mm long 3/8" dowels welded to the bottom of it. The rules state no more than 2" length and many bigger shoots will measure it, so, no more than 50mm.
Many ranges like my local range use Astroturf, or fake grass and don't allow spikes which will poke holes in their artificial turf. A simple fix for this is to just have 3x bolts screwed through with nuts on the other side. These nuts don't destroy the Astroturf, but will still stop the rear plate from rocking around on the Astroturf.

Jakec27
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Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:28 pm
Location: Bendigo

Re: Mound Setup 101

#19 Postby Jakec27 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:44 am

im lucky in that the range i shoot at all the mounds are astro turf and very firm. should i still be using something under my rear bag?

RDavies
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Location: Singleton NSW

Re: Mound Setup 101

#20 Postby RDavies » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:30 pm

Jakec27 wrote:im lucky in that the range i shoot at all the mounds are astro turf and very firm. should i still be using something under my rear bag?

.
I suppose they are all different. At my local, the problem is not so much the length of the fake grass, but that it is very uneven due to the ground it was later on. There are many humps and hollows, which unlike on dirt mounds, you can’t level off the ground with your hands . This often means rear bags are rocking around on lumps and bumps. You can get by without a 3 knobbbed rear on my local range mound but you have to be sure to put your rear bag where the lumps and bumps are under the very front and rear of the bag. You can tell how your set up is by pushing your rifle back and forth in the bags while looking through the scope, or watching does the rear bag rock back and forth, or even worse, diagonally.

bruce moulds
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Re: Mound Setup 101

#21 Postby bruce moulds » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:59 pm

another way to overcome hard undulating ground for the rear bag is to put a flat sandbag about 1" thick on the bottom.
it can have a hard flat surface on the top side if you wish to stand the rear bag on that.
the soft underside can will naturally conform to the terrain, filling hollows and bulging up on a knob.
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880
http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

UL1700
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Re: Mound Setup 101

#22 Postby UL1700 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:36 pm

For what it's worth, and as I read it there are no spikes allowed in Ftr (rule 20.40). I was using a heavy 16mm thick steel rear plate with a coating of garnet applied to each side to stop the plate and bag sliding for Ftr and added spikes for Fopen. Without spikes, it worked well on perfectly flat ground but normally resulted in the rear plate rocking on hard surfaces. The SEB bigfoots we use can also bow their bases causing the bag to rock on the plate. I have now changed to a donut sandbag and have found it to be extremely stable with no bag or plate rock but harder to level then a spiked plate, the experimentation continues!

As to holding the joystick debate, when shooting F open off a heavy rest (we use a SEB max) I hold as the rest won't move. However when I had a Joypod for Ftr I didn't hold as the rest moves under recoil with resulting vertical and inconsistent tracking / slower return to point of aim. I am now running a Auspod which is definitely hands off but letting go of that windage handle can be a real mind bender! I run a carpeted 6mm steel plate for the bipod but once again, rocking can be an issue. I tried a borrowed thick rubber mat covered in carpet and my vertical was atrocious however 1 range at a 1000 yard certainly isn't conclusive so I will probably look into this again.

We also both shoot left handed actions right handed in ambidextrous stocks. With a little practice this allows you to maintain your overall position including all important trigger hand whilst loading. It also makes you more inclined to lift the bolt or keep the chamber open whilst waiting out a condition (happens a lot when you still don't have the confidence to accurately call a change during competition).

I did position myself directly inline with the rifle and basically free recoil but the 308 was beating me up an the shock of the stock hitting my shoulder was possibly causing elevation. For Ftr I now lie about about a 15 degree angle to the stock and have light but definite shoulder contact with the butt. Body position is something that I still haven't quite figured for Ftr. My finally thing is don't get too comfortable. I find excessively padded shooting mats cause a lack of stability. I keep returning to my sheet of canvas tarpaulin with a off centre hole cut in it for the rear bag and the bipod in front of it however on really hard mounds I often regret that decision!

Anyway just some bits and pieces I have picked up over the last couple of years and still a long way to go, mainly watching that darn wind! Happy shooting.

James

DenisA
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Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD

Re: Mound Setup 101

#23 Postby DenisA » Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:44 pm

Brad Y wrote:
Lastly, make sure you position your 60.10 rattler in the perfect spot to allow you to load, fire and reload without breaking position :lol:


Bahahaha, your going to make Alan start another thread. :lol:

Good advice on the other points too

RDavies
Posts: 2021
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:23 pm
Location: Singleton NSW

Re: Mound Setup 101

#24 Postby RDavies » Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:37 pm

DenisA wrote:
Brad Y wrote:
Lastly, make sure you position your 60.10 rattler in the perfect spot to allow you to load, fire and reload without breaking position :lol:


Bahahaha, your going to make Alan start another thread. :lol:

Good advice on the other points too

Well, its true, it is much more valuable when put in a position where you don't need to move off your elbow to load your ammo.

DenisA
Posts: 1457
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:00 pm
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD

Re: Mound Setup 101

#25 Postby DenisA » Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:49 pm

Rattler position, monitor position and ejector makes for a super smooth shoot. Fast or slow.

Jakec27
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:28 pm
Location: Bendigo

Re: Mound Setup 101

#26 Postby Jakec27 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:16 pm

In regards to the Seb neo do you have to add any feet to it or make any changes to feet if it comes with any?

Tim N
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Location: Branxton NSW

Re: Mound Setup 101

#27 Postby Tim N » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:25 pm

My rear rest set up is a Bigfoot bag on a 12mm plate with no slip rubber glued to one side, the stuff used in tool box draws.
This stuff grips the base of the Bigfoot so well that I have to move the bag and plate to change position.
I used to run spikes on a rear plate but now I don’t.
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC

GSells
Posts: 531
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:04 pm

Re: Mound Setup 101

#28 Postby GSells » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:28 pm

RDavies wrote:
DenisA wrote:
Brad Y wrote:
Lastly, make sure you position your 60.10 rattler in the perfect spot to allow you to load, fire and reload without breaking position :lol:


Bahahaha, your going to make Alan start another thread. :lol:

Good advice on the other points too

Well, its true, it is much more valuable when put in a position where you don't need to move off your elbow to load your ammo.

That’s why I have a large sand bag stopping my elbow from moving out of position!

bruce moulds
Posts: 2622
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

Re: Mound Setup 101

#29 Postby bruce moulds » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:55 pm

actually you have to position your rifle to aim at the target.
as for reloading without moving position yourself, you have to position yourself around that.
the rests are the natural point of aim for this discipline.
around that you need to get into the most comfortable position to suit that, as lack of strain aids in repeatability.
I think I personally like my rifle a little higher than most, as I can let my weight bear down on the more vertical upper arm bones this allows, and it also puts the butt more in line with my shoulder.
this allows the centre of the recoil pad to hit the shoulder rather than the heel of stock..
I note that most here seem to like the ears of the rear bag to support the cheeks of the toe of stock, keeping the bottom of the toe off the rear bag itself.
my own preference has been to set the ear pressure a bit less, letting the stock sit on the bag while the ears are a good enough fit to stop any side movement.
too much pressure from the ears might well affect tracking due to friction.
comments?
bruce.
p.s.
has anyone ever thought about making a joystick plate to go under the rear bag rather than moving the front bag?
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM


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