300wsm 210 Load Data

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AlexE
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300wsm 210 Load Data

#1 Postby AlexE » Mon May 13, 2019 9:19 pm

Hi Folks,

I've just taken delivery of a WSM (30" 1:10) that I plan to use 210 lrbts in. Can someone give me some ballpark data? The previous owner jumped 210vlds using 59.0gr of 2209. I don't doubt it was an accurate load from what he has told me, but it seems on the low side. My last WSM I ran quite a lot more than that shooting 215s and it was a very safe load.

Anybody got some data for 210s using ADI powder they care to share?

Cheerio,
Alex

Gyro
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:44 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: 300wsm 210 Load Data

#2 Postby Gyro » Tue May 14, 2019 10:10 am

AlexE wrote:Hi Folks,

I've just taken delivery of a WSM (30" 1:10) that I plan to use 210 lrbts in. Can someone give me some ballpark data? The previous owner jumped 210vlds using 59.0gr of 2209. I don't doubt it was an accurate load from what he has told me, but it seems on the low side. My last WSM I ran quite a lot more than that shooting 215s and it was a very safe load.

Anybody got some data for 210s using ADI powder they care to share?

Cheerio,
Alex


Them 210 VLD boolits have a relatively long bearing surface and 2209 is a relatively fast powder. That normally equals a pressure spike in my experience. Hence the previous owners low load ?

ben_g
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:37 pm

Re: 300wsm 210 Load Data

#3 Postby ben_g » Tue May 14, 2019 6:39 pm

From my reading online most of the HG benchrest shooters in the the states seem to run the 210’s in the 2850fps range with 2209.

Perhaps RL23 or 2213sc will give more velocity. I know RL23 woke mine up with 215’s.

I’m considering trying the 200.20X with 2209

Pommy Chris
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:05 pm

Re: 300wsm 210 Load Data

#4 Postby Pommy Chris » Tue May 14, 2019 6:58 pm

Gyro wrote:
AlexE wrote:Hi Folks,

I've just taken delivery of a WSM (30" 1:10) that I plan to use 210 lrbts in. Can someone give me some ballpark data? The previous owner jumped 210vlds using 59.0gr of 2209. I don't doubt it was an accurate load from what he has told me, but it seems on the low side. My last WSM I ran quite a lot more than that shooting 215s and it was a very safe load.

Anybody got some data for 210s using ADI powder they care to share?

Cheerio,
Alex


Them 210 VLD boolits have a relatively long bearing surface and 2209 is a relatively fast powder. That normally equals a pressure spike in my experience. Hence the previous owners low load ?

I shoot (admittedly moly) 210 on a couple of my rifles with around 46.8 grains of 2208 which is around 52 or more grains of 2209, so I agree that is not a high load. I run a 7 thou jam too.
Chris

Gyro
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:44 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: 300wsm 210 Load Data

#5 Postby Gyro » Sat May 18, 2019 7:59 am

AlexE wrote:Hi Folks,

I've just taken delivery of a WSM (30" 1:10) that I plan to use 210 lrbts in. Can someone give me some ballpark data? The previous owner jumped 210vlds using 59.0gr of 2209. I don't doubt it was an accurate load from what he has told me, but it seems on the low side. My last WSM I ran quite a lot more than that shooting 215s and it was a very safe load.

Anybody got some data for 210s using ADI powder they care to share?

Cheerio,
Alex


Seems many shooters reckon 2209/H4350 is the greatest powder ever developed ( isn't it ? ) and use it when it's actually too hot. What they don't willingly tell u is how much thier brass is getting thrashed.

Pommy Chris
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:05 pm

Re: 300wsm 210 Load Data

#6 Postby Pommy Chris » Mon May 20, 2019 7:50 am

Gyro wrote:
AlexE wrote:Hi Folks,

I've just taken delivery of a WSM (30" 1:10) that I plan to use 210 lrbts in. Can someone give me some ballpark data? The previous owner jumped 210vlds using 59.0gr of 2209. I don't doubt it was an accurate load from what he has told me, but it seems on the low side. My last WSM I ran quite a lot more than that shooting 215s and it was a very safe load.

Anybody got some data for 210s using ADI powder they care to share?

Cheerio,
Alex


Seems many shooters reckon 2209/H4350 is the greatest powder ever developed ( isn't it ? ) and use it when it's actually too hot. What they don't willingly tell u is how much thier brass is getting thrashed.
I have just under 2,000 rounds on one of my 215 barrels, same brass since new and still in good condition using similar loads and brass has been reloaded many times, basically brass lasted life of barrel.
Chris

Gyro
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:44 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: 300wsm 210 Load Data

#7 Postby Gyro » Mon May 20, 2019 8:34 am

Pommy Chris wrote:
Gyro wrote:
AlexE wrote:Hi Folks,

I've just taken delivery of a WSM (30" 1:10) that I plan to use 210 lrbts in. Can someone give me some ballpark data? The previous owner jumped 210vlds using 59.0gr of 2209. I don't doubt it was an accurate load from what he has told me, but it seems on the low side. My last WSM I ran quite a lot more than that shooting 215s and it was a very safe load.

Anybody got some data for 210s using ADI powder they care to share?

Cheerio,
Alex


Seems many shooters reckon 2209/H4350 is the greatest powder ever developed ( isn't it ? ) and use it when it's actually too hot. What they don't willingly tell u is how much thier brass is getting thrashed.
I have just under 2,000 rounds on one of my 215 barrels, same brass since new and still in good condition using similar loads and brass has been reloaded many times, basically brass lasted life of barrel.
Chris


Cheers Chris. And the details ?

ben_g
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:37 pm

Re: 300wsm 210 Load Data

#8 Postby ben_g » Mon May 20, 2019 8:12 pm

I think Chris is talking about a 308win not a WSM??

In the WSM case with 215’s you probably want something a little slower burning than 2209.

I have tried 2213SC which got me to 2900fps before pressure, RE23 got me another 100fps before pressure.

I haven’t even tried 2209 in mine but from my reading expect a load in the low to mid 2800fps bracket.

As I said above I am planning on giving some 200.20X projectiles a try with 2209 at some stage.

Pommy Chris
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:05 pm

Re: 300wsm 210 Load Data

#9 Postby Pommy Chris » Tue May 21, 2019 6:42 am

Gyro wrote:
Pommy Chris wrote:
Gyro wrote:
Seems many shooters reckon 2209/H4350 is the greatest powder ever developed ( isn't it ? ) and use it when it's actually too hot. What they don't willingly tell u is how much thier brass is getting thrashed.
I have just under 2,000 rounds on one of my 215 barrels, same brass since new and still in good condition using similar loads and brass has been reloaded many times, basically brass lasted life of barrel.
Chris


Cheers Chris. And the details ?

Yes I am, it is 215's in a .308 and I do use moly, that said to get 215's going in a .308 1 in 10 twist to do 2690ish fps in my barrel at least it was 46.8 grains of 2208 and my cases are the same I started with after 2,000 rounds and they are fine. To get 215's to a similar velocity in a 308 you need a drop tube to get the powder in and it takes 51.5 plus grains of 2209 and normally this will only give you (in a .308) 2650fps and again no pressure issues. If I am not having problems with a .308 cant imagine issues with 2209 with a lesser load in a 300wsm,
Chris

ben_g
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:37 pm

Re: 300wsm 210 Load Data

#10 Postby ben_g » Tue May 21, 2019 7:07 am

No one is saying 2209 causes a ‘problem’ in a WSM.

But it’s on the fast side for that case capacity for the heavy end of the projectile choice. As you go up in capacity or reduce caliber for the same capacity you generally need slower powders. You simply cannot compare how 2209 behaves in a much smaller case!!

The point made above about 2209 is that it would be entirely possible to have a brass trashing load well before reaching the case capacity or the velocity potential of the cartridge. You could squeeze 68-70gr of 2209 in the WSM case but would be very foolish to do so when around 60gr of the stuff is getting close to max with a 215gr. In the 308 you need to use a drop tube and still aren’t over pressure..... see the difference??

There is no way 2209 is able achieve velocities above what 2213SC or RE23 can in the WSM with a long barrel

If your sensible and stick to what is a low node of 2800-2840fps with 2209 I am sure it would be fine in the WSM, but the cartridge is capable of far better velocity, with excellent accuracy with a more appropriate powder for its capacity.

I really think 2209 with the lighter 200.20X which also has a pretty short bearing surface could work great in the WSM.
Last edited by ben_g on Tue May 21, 2019 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Gyro
Posts: 414
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Location: New Zealand

Re: 300wsm 210 Load Data

#11 Postby Gyro » Tue May 21, 2019 7:28 am

ben_g wrote:No one is saying 2209 causes a ‘problem’ in a WSM.

But it’s on the fast side for that case capacity, as you go up in capacity or reduce caliber for the same capacity you generally need slower powders. You simply cannot compare how 2209 behaves in a much smaller case!!

The point made above about 2209 is that it would be entirely possible to have a brass trashing load well before reaching the case capacity or the velocity potential of the cartridge. You could squeeze 68-70gr of 2209 in the WSM case but would be very foolish to do so when around 60gr of the stuff is getting close to max with a 215gr. In the 308 you need to use a drop tube and still aren’t over pressure..... see the difference??

There is no way 2209 is able achieve velocities above what 2213SC or RE23 can in the WSM with a long barrel

If your sensible and stick to what is a low node of 2800-2840fpa with 2209 I am sure it would be fine in the WSM, but the cartridge is capable of far better velocity, with excellent accuracy with a more appropriate powder for its capacity. .


To be sure to be sure ....

I think its important to realise every 'case' is different. There are some common denominators tho.

To get some real numbers here like Chris has given allows us to begin working it all out. Using moly changes the dynamics to.

And theres no laws against trashing brass quickly. After all dont ya just wanna win !!!! Cool to have some real load numbers tho. Cheers Rob K.

ben_g
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:37 pm

Re: 300wsm 210 Load Data

#12 Postby ben_g » Tue May 21, 2019 7:40 am

Yes, what the FTR and matchrifle guys can achieve with the little 308case is pretty impressive!!

My main point is you just can’t compare the behaviour of 2209 in the small case to how it behaves in the larger case.

I have so far only stuck to the 215’s in my WSM barrel, and from the research I have done 2209 is not very popular for the 215’s, however start researching the use of 210 VLD’s and 2209 is the most popular amongst the 1000yard BR shooters in the states. It’s not fast, it doesn’t cheat the wind any better than a 284 but they apparently shoot tiny little groups.

For me the 300WSM with 215’s is really to be saved for matchrifle shoots and maybe a Queens (where energy limits allow it) when conditions turn really bumpy. I’m looking into lighter loads with 200.20’s or 210’a more to practice handling it at club shoots. For an OPM or Queens in ‘normal’ conditions I would probably shoot a 284 barrel, the concentration level required is far less.

Gyro
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:44 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: 300wsm 210 Load Data

#13 Postby Gyro » Tue May 21, 2019 10:55 am

ben_g wrote:Yes, what the FTR and matchrifle guys can achieve with the little 308case is pretty impressive!!

My main point is you just can’t compare the behaviour of 2209 in the small case to how it behaves in the larger case.

I have so far only stuck to the 215’s in my WSM barrel, and from the research I have done 2209 is not very popular for the 215’s, however start researching the use of 210 VLD’s and 2209 is the most popular amongst the 1000yard BR shooters in the states. It’s not fast, it doesn’t cheat the wind any better than a 284 but they apparently shoot tiny little groups.

For me the 300WSM with 215’s is really to be saved for matchrifle shoots and maybe a Queens (where energy limits allow it) when conditions turn really bumpy. I’m looking into lighter loads with 200.20’s or 210’a more to practice handling it at club shoots. For an OPM or Queens in ‘normal’ conditions I would probably shoot a 284 barrel, the concentration level required is far less.


Maybe its the case Ben ? Im playing with a 7/300WSM and running it slow like a 284 with 2217 and after sorting out a few gremlins its shooting VERY well.

ben_g
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:37 pm

Re: 300wsm 210 Load Data

#14 Postby ben_g » Tue May 21, 2019 12:33 pm

This 300wsm has been the easiest tuning barrel I have had so far.

Anything between 63.0 and 65.0gr of powder with a 215berger will shoot itty bitty little groups. With 64.0being in the middle of a very wide node.

The 7/300WSM is renowned to be very hard on throats when run at its potential, for long string fire. Shooters with far more experience and skill than me say it’s not worth the effort playing with it at its potential.

Glad to hear it works for you, but what is the benefit over a 284 or throttling back a SAUM??

Gyro
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:44 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: 300wsm 210 Load Data

#15 Postby Gyro » Tue May 21, 2019 12:42 pm

No benefit, i just had lots of Norma brass and a barrel lying around and a reamer to borrow. Ive done lots of 300WSM shooting but been wanting to cross to the 7mm for ages for less gun-upset for the equivalent BC. No brainer !


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