New Barrel

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Pommy Chris
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Re: New Barrel

#16 Postby Pommy Chris » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:40 pm

David B wrote:Simply talking about following the manufacturer's because they for some reason they have a tendency to know best, if the muzzle end a new barrel is badly copper fouled it's a dead give away.

And if a new barrel looking in the barrel is copper fouled then shoot another 10 rounds, next time you clean it will be fine no damage done..
Chris

Frank Green
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Re: New Barrel

#17 Postby Frank Green » Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:48 am

willow wrote:
David B wrote:
willow wrote:Didn't bother with any particular procedure for my last barrel which went on a 6BRA. Put 25 rounds down the tube whilst fireforming, went home and gave it a good scrub. To this date it's probably been the best barrel I've had.

All well and good but what would happen if it was a dud, would you expect a warranty?


Nope. The only barrel manufacturer that springs to mind that offers a guarantee of sorts is Benchmark barrels. I haven't had a dud barrel yet, and only one of my friends springs to mind that really had a shocking barrel chambered in .260. If I end up with a dud down the track, so be it. I'll probably just steer clear of that manufacturer moving forward but I make a point with my rifles to only use cut-rifled barrels as opposed to other rifling methods.


What do they guarantee?

We stand behind everything we make. If it's something we did will stand behind it.

I don't know of any barrel maker that will guarantee/give an accuracy guarantee etc...too many variables to do a guarantee on that.

Later, Frank

Frank Green
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Re: New Barrel

#18 Postby Frank Green » Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:54 am

David B wrote:Could be something to do with the barrel manufactures instructions... guess they know a little about barrels?
Will you guys be covering warranties for people don't bother with a run in procedure?


What instructions? I know it can vary quite a bit from maker to maker.

I tell guys I really don't do a break in anymore.

As someone else in this thread pointed out as well....in a good barrel and chamber job the only thing you are breaking in is the throat of the chamber.

I'll shoot the first one or two rounds thru it and clean it. If the barrel is cleaning quick and easy....I don't waste anymore time on it.

later, Frank

David B
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Re: New Barrel

#19 Postby David B » Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:02 am

Frank sounds like you don't just get down and shoot, in fact you follow a process. what is not being considered here is not e every one has a bore scope. Does it make sense for the average shooter to seek out what the info barrel makers have on the subject?

willow
Posts: 206
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Re: New Barrel

#20 Postby willow » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:48 am

Frank Green wrote:
willow wrote:
David B wrote:All well and good but what would happen if it was a dud, would you expect a warranty?


Nope. The only barrel manufacturer that springs to mind that offers a guarantee of sorts is Benchmark barrels. I haven't had a dud barrel yet, and only one of my friends springs to mind that really had a shocking barrel chambered in .260. If I end up with a dud down the track, so be it. I'll probably just steer clear of that manufacturer moving forward but I make a point with my rifles to only use cut-rifled barrels as opposed to other rifling methods.


What do they guarantee?

We stand behind everything we make. If it's something we did will stand behind it.

I don't know of any barrel maker that will guarantee/give an accuracy guarantee etc...too many variables to do a guarantee on that.

Later, Frank


Bought one a couple of years ago through the Aussie distributor. He told me if it wasn't a 'shooter', Benchmark would simply offer a replacement as their guarantee. I haven't been shooting that long compared to some of the guys on here and haven't gone through a heap of barrels so I didn't think much of it at the time - just a sales pitch more than anything, but I hadn't heard of people sending barrels back to be replaced because they didn't provide the level of accuracy they were seeking. Anyway, it's probably detracting from the OPs original question.

AlanF
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Location: Maffra, Vic

Re: New Barrel

#21 Postby AlanF » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:56 am

I think its fair to say that the majority of top level shooters do run their barrels in, and they are probably the best guide to what is worth doing and what isn't. I've run in about 20 6.5/7mm barrels in my career and have never questioned the need. I believe that 7.62 barrels are less prone to copper fouling so not as critical. FWIW I have a set recipe with running in that goes 1-1-1-2-3-5-10 shots between (thorough) cleans. I'm not a fan of shooting single shots then cleaning again and again until none required - with most barrels it will never happen. Using my method, by the time the 10 shot stage is reached, coppering is usually minimal. But, one thing I've learnt through bad experience is you shouldn't assume that once your running in is complete, you can just shoot the barrel for a full day (or more) without any further thoughts about cleaning. I believe I've ruined a couple of good barrels by letting carbon build up for too many rounds very early in the life of a barrel. They need thorough cleaning often when still new.

Brad Y
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Re: New Barrel

#22 Postby Brad Y » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:07 am

To me a barrel isnt fully run in until its had its little speed up/down phase. But in that time its still easy to see if its going to initially copper foul after the first few shots or so, and clean accordingly. I think the biggest thing in this time is to not let the horrible glazed carbon buildup occur. If it does I think it definitely decreases the barrel life and performance due to the methods required to remove it so early in its life. Last few barrels took 5 or so rounds with cleaning between them. Other than that start shooting strings. Clean at the end of the day, and preferably get some sort of cleaner like hoppes 9 in there while the barrel is warm then take it home and sort it out after a soak.

Barry Davies
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Re: New Barrel

#23 Postby Barry Davies » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:45 pm

Had a few barrels in my career and run every one in.
Consider -- almost without exception the first shot thru a new barrel will produce copious amounts of copper --and it's not all from the newly cut throat. It is evident at the muzzle in streaks.
As the number of shots increases the amount of copper deposited decreases until at some stage there is no copper pick up.
So, what does this mean? It means that there is some " roughness " even in a new, supposedly lapped barrel.
Is it harmful? The experts tell us that it is. So to be on the safe side run the barrel in. The amount of shots required varies but is usually less than 25, and that in the life of a barrel is nothing -- but good insurance.
Barry

DenisA
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Re: New Barrel

#24 Postby DenisA » Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:21 pm

Of the last 8ish barrels that I've run in, they've all stopped copper fouling at different round counts in the process. Some have not copper fouled from the beginning, most have to some degree and some have been terrible at the start.

The common thing is that they've all started shooting really clean at some stage in the break in process.

Getting through that part before load testing and potentially misleading yourself Sounds like a reasonable idea to me.

macguru
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Re: New Barrel

#25 Postby macguru » Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:03 pm

I think you dont need to get 100 % of the carbon out , and anyone who thinks they do is probably kidding themselves. No chemical will do it and excessive bronze brushing to mine the grooves for carbon will keep finding more and might wear the barrel a little, since the paste of carbon is there, even if the bronze brush is softer than stainless steel. I reckon you just need to brush a few times to stop a carbon doughnut developing and deforming the projectile. then clean up with a tight patch, repeat a couple of times, then dry patch, showing no carbon. (but each time you bronze brush you will mine a bit more from the grooves)

ben_g
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Re: New Barrel

#26 Postby ben_g » Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:06 pm

I do 1 -1 -1 -3 -5 -5 then clean after each stage for the next few stages.

Do it with the chronograph attached. You will have it zeroed, have an idea what charge is required to meet the target velocity and if it looks like it will hold a group together. It’s not really a big ‘waste’ of barrel life IMO but it is time consuming.

I am curious at what round count someone would take a barrel to a major event? My last two 284barrels both did the speed up trick as I posted previously. I don’t think I would take a 284 barrel with less than say 150-200shots to a Queens for fear it goes out of tune during the event.

Tim L
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Location: Townsville

Re: New Barrel

#27 Postby Tim L » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:27 pm

There were a few articles about manufacturers instructions a couple of years back. The impression I took from them was that it was just advice given if you want to achieve the best from a barrel. There didn't seem to be any evidence to support any of the processes (and there were many variations) and mixed opinions from shooters as to the benefit (if any).
As far as evidence does go there are plenty of great shooters who do perform a run in process and many great shooters who just load and shoot.
My run in process is to not machinegun the first 25 rounds. After that its game on.

Frank Green
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: New Barrel

#28 Postby Frank Green » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:15 am

David B wrote:Frank sounds like you don't just get down and shoot, in fact you follow a process. what is not being considered here is not e every one has a bore scope. Does it make sense for the average shooter to seek out what the info barrel makers have on the subject?


By all means get the barrel makers barrel you got and ask how/what they recommend. Everyone has a differnt take and perspective on it as well as what they learned over the years.

You don't necessarliy need a bore scope. It is helpful if you have access to one. Also it is helpful if you know what you are looking at.

With out a bore scope and when I"m shooting a new barrel (at that range I don't have a bore scope) I look to see what the barrel is telling me. Normally I'll shoot 2 rounds thru the gun. Again if the barrel cleans quicly and easily I sit down and shoot the gun.

Yesterday I shot my sons rifle I"m buiding him. It's a .223 bolt gun. I shot 10 rounds thru it from the get go. Last 3 shot group after adjusting the scope a couple of times it shot a .298". I cleaned the barrel and other than getting some carbon fouling out of it....I'm considering it broken in.

Now a new barrel can change/pick up velocity with in X amount of rounds.

Again just pay attention to it.

Later, Frank

Frank Green
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: New Barrel

#29 Postby Frank Green » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:20 am

AlanF wrote:I think its fair to say that the majority of top level shooters do run their barrels in, and they are probably the best guide to what is worth doing and what isn't. I've run in about 20 6.5/7mm barrels in my career and have never questioned the need. I believe that 7.62 barrels are less prone to copper fouling so not as critical. FWIW I have a set recipe with running in that goes 1-1-1-2-3-5-10 shots between (thorough) cleans. I'm not a fan of shooting single shots then cleaning again and again until none required - with most barrels it will never happen. Using my method, by the time the 10 shot stage is reached, coppering is usually minimal. But, one thing I've learnt through bad experience is you shouldn't assume that once your running in is complete, you can just shoot the barrel for a full day (or more) without any further thoughts about cleaning. I believe I've ruined a couple of good barrels by letting carbon build up for too many rounds very early in the life of a barrel. They need thorough cleaning often when still new.



Alan brought up a couple of good points as well! Well said Alan!

Frank Green
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: New Barrel

#30 Postby Frank Green » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:26 am

ben_g wrote:I do 1 -1 -1 -3 -5 -5 then clean after each stage for the next few stages.

Do it with the chronograph attached. You will have it zeroed, have an idea what charge is required to meet the target velocity and if it looks like it will hold a group together. It’s not really a big ‘waste’ of barrel life IMO but it is time consuming.

I am curious at what round count someone would take a barrel to a major event? My last two 284barrels both did the speed up trick as I posted previously. I don’t think I would take a 284 barrel with less than say 150-200shots to a Queens for fear it goes out of tune during the event.


In most calibers I tell guys by about a 100 rounds give or take a little the barrel should've settled down velocity wise.

Most ammunition makers won't use the barrel for test data until it has 100 rounds on it as well. They will track and record the data in the mean time though.


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