7mm SAUM Rechamber/Barrel Life

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Azzopardi
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:32 pm
Location: Cairns, QLD

Re: 7mm SAUM Rechamber/Barrel Life

#46 Postby Azzopardi » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:02 pm

BRETT B wrote:Hey Azzo , If it is VERY heavy carbon you can get it out just takes some work. If your going to re chamber I would try it anyway but you will need clean it bare and maybe Iosso may be the only thing that will touch it!! ALL the carbon needs to come out so soaking for a few days may help but all depends how baked on it is.Cap 1 end of your barrel, fill with hoppes to top of the muzzle and cap that end , stand upright in the corner for a week. Capping keeps the solvents from evaporating, this could help soften up the carbon. JB Red does work but only after you get most of the carbon out as its just not abrasive enough if carbon is baked on hard. Saums with 2209 are ANGRY hence require a more sturdy cleaning approach than typical calibres.


Mate, I'll definitely give that a crack. My normal cleaning regime is, after a cub shoot, Bore Tech Carbon Remover to remove the carbon then apply Eliminator. After about 150 rounds clean with KG2. When storied run Metho down the barrel then apply oil. Do the the later every month when not using.

I'm also not fussed about a re-chamber/crown, I don't think the cost vs the pay back will be in my favour. I'm very OK with a new barrel/s.
Regards,
Azzo

GSells
Posts: 339
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:04 pm

Re: 7mm SAUM Rechamber/Barrel Life

#47 Postby GSells » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:45 pm

The pit at a 5 looks nasty and not sure what it is ? But fwiw, have u tried Autosol on a chux rag wrapped around a nylon brush or a 7 mm wool mop ? Then the copper has to come out . It looks bad the first 5 “ of the barrel . Looks like double the round count . The fact that it went so suddenly, may suggest carbon and copper ??

GSells
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Re: 7mm SAUM Rechamber/Barrel Life

#48 Postby GSells » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:50 pm

Ps if u want to sell it rathe than throwing it please PM me ? I could cut 5” off and turn into a short to mid range barrel or just for training etc ! Better than nothing?
Regards Graham.

Azzopardi
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:32 pm
Location: Cairns, QLD

Re: 7mm SAUM Rechamber/Barrel Life

#49 Postby Azzopardi » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:41 pm

GSells wrote:Ps if u want to sell it rathe than throwing it please PM me ? I could cut 5” off and turn into a short to mid range barrel or just for training etc ! Better than nothing?
Regards Graham.


Cheers Graham but it will be handy to fire Form cases.
Regards,
Azzo

williada
Posts: 730
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:37 am

Re: 7mm SAUM Rechamber/Barrel Life

#50 Postby williada » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:57 pm

Graham, whatever you do never wrap a rag around a nylon, brass or wool mop and add paste. Its a complete NO, NO. I feel, cutting this barrel back won't solve the coppering as it appears for some distance. As much copper needs to be removed by chemical action as possible to clean it up before re-lapping. It then requires a light land lap with a bronze lap, to make it easier to reconstruct the internal surface if possible with the use of a lead lap of the grooves and bore, then reworked with a brass or copper land lap to resharpen the lands rounded by the remedial lead lap conducted by someone who knows what they are doing. Then a chamber nip. The basic barrel lift of this barrel suggests it restoration may be worth the effort if it was holding 1/2 the "X" value. Assuming the barrel was not soft and was heat treated correctly in the first instance. I did have a barrel ruined once by a solvent which was not what it was supposed to be. Something is not right here with a barrel dying with so few shots.

Wal86
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Re: 7mm SAUM Rechamber/Barrel Life

#51 Postby Wal86 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:59 am

williada wrote: Something is not right here with a barrel dying with so few shots.


The problem here is the barrel has never been cleaned properly from the beginning, and the fouling has compounded up until this point..

KHGS
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Re: 7mm SAUM Rechamber/Barrel Life

#52 Postby KHGS » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:34 am

Wal86 wrote:
williada wrote: Something is not right here with a barrel dying with so few shots.


I think the problem here is the barrel has never been cleaned properly from the beginning, and the fouling has compounded to this point..


Wal86, correct!!!! The copper that is attracting everyones attention is the by-product of a heavy carbon deposit. I am a fan of BoreTech products, but the carbon remover falls short of what it is supposed to do with carbon removal in my humble opinion, I feel there are better products for this purpose. Heavy carbon can only be removed with an abrasive cleaner such as JB original. Autosol & JB red cleaners are too fine & only remove the copper & polish the carbon giving a false indication of a "clean" barrel. The large "pit" shown in the pictures is caused by moisture from humidity being trapped beneath the carbon fouling causing rusting, remember this carbon fouling is hydroscopic. My 2 cents worth.
Keith H.
Geriatric Gunsmith. :) :) :) :)

KHGS
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Re: 7mm SAUM Rechamber/Barrel Life

#53 Postby KHGS » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:41 am

Azzopardi wrote:
Pommy Chris wrote:
Azzopardi wrote:
G’day Chris,
None taken prior to the shoot after the pasting and I haven’t JB’ed it yet.

It might be worth pasting it with something like KG, see if you can really clean it up and try it again, you might be lucky and get accuracy back for a bit longer.
I am also curious about 7mm and moly use. Moly seems to extend my 308 barrels life, I cant help wondering if it might extend 7mm barrel life too?
Chris


Tried moly when I was shooting F-TR and it reminded me of a lady I used to know; messy and I had to clean up, often.


True........but if used & a proper cleaning regime followed............no barrel destroying carbon deposits!!!!! I have used it religiously for over 25 years & I have had NO carbon problems in any of my barrels over that period, in contrast to prior to using moly.
Keith H.
Geriatric Gunsmith.

sungazer
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:58 pm

Re: 7mm SAUM Rechamber/Barrel Life

#54 Postby sungazer » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:27 am

Williada with reference to your comment "whatever you do never wrap a rag around a nylon, brass or wool mop and add paste. Its a complete NO, NO." What is the correct procedure when using a paste like JB or KG2? Sorry to go off topic.

GSells
Posts: 339
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Re: 7mm SAUM Rechamber/Barrel Life

#55 Postby GSells » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:59 am

Kieth , if it’s ok to ask ? What was that foaming cleaner that u used ? Nulon airfilter Cleaner ? If so , is this the kind of product that would help ? I know you have said a number times lol! Of what your recommendations are , but I for one really respect and appreciate your thoughts . Regards G Man lol!

watrob
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Re: 7mm SAUM Rechamber/Barrel Life

#56 Postby watrob » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:27 am

There are two things you can do with this barrel, used Jb or throw it in the bin. I shoot amongst other things 6PPC, we clean after every 8 shots and use a brass brush. We JB or Ozzo after every 50 rounds, we shoot tiny little holes people dream about and throw our barrels away after 500 to 600 rounds. Its really no different whether its a .284, 7 WSM, 7 SAUM, etc, barrels are on there way out after 600 to 800 rounds.

I re-barrel before the start of each season, if the barrel does not shoot by 100 rounds the new backup barrel is fitted, I see so many competitors trying to extend the life of their barrel nearing the end of the season just falling further back in the rankings. When they finally put a new barrel on, only to hear them say I should have done it 500 rounds ago.

I know not everyone can have a reserve of barrels, but in the 5 different comps I compete in, to be in the top five and have a chance of winning at season end your barrel would have done close to 600 rounds, I run two barrels so to have no more than 400 rounds or so on each of them by season end. I ran second on Saturday, lost by .9 of one point, the guy that came 3rd was a further 1 point behind, all of us are running new season barrels.

And as far as hummer barrels go, all my barrels are hummers, why shoot a barrel that is not in a comp. You spend all week preparing your load to shot a comp on the weekend, if I don't shot well then I know its me, not the Rile and not the Load, no excuses, I shoot to compete, not compete to shoot? Am I an exception to the norm, don't thing so, the top 5 guys do what I do and even bring 2 LG's & 2 HG's to comps to shoot the weather condition on the day, calculating if they are shooting early morning or later in the day when conditions change.

This barrel may or not be saved, but it's going to need to be replace sooner rather than later.

BRETT B
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Location: PERTH

Re: 7mm SAUM Rechamber/Barrel Life

#57 Postby BRETT B » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:59 am

FWIW , I have tried probably every form of Carbon removing solvent over many years and the best one i have used for removing and softening up carbon is Helmar. You will still need an abrasive periodically but Helmar is great for loosening up Hard carbon is Saums .
BRETT BUNYAN F CLASS OPEN SHOOTER W.A.

watrob
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Re: 7mm SAUM Rechamber/Barrel Life

#58 Postby watrob » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:52 pm

The secrete is not to let carbon form in the first place (prevention is better than cure). I would rather over clean or keep clean a barrel, now some believe you shorten its life (I do not agree with that, 6PPC proves that wrong). So lets say instead of 800 rounds you get 600 because of cleaning against a barrel that say after 300 rounds is carbon fouled plus copper overlay and does not shoot, then at 400 rounds you realise the problem, the damage and fire cracking has started, you have to aggressively clean anyway and the barrel has not shot well since reaching 250 rounds and now the barrel only lasts to 600 rounds anyway.

So a clean barrel that shoots right up to 600, or a carbon fouled, fire cracked with copper layers that has gone off at 300, so how many comps have you lost. I have spoken to so many shooters who have been told all you need to do is patch occasional and never us a brush and they wonder why they shoot 1" groups at a 100yards.

I mean no ill to the Azzo, but just patching out the barrel does not get it clean, the layers build up, and if you notice when you use a brass brush they wear out pretty quick, they are softer than SS and you are using a lubricant as well. Hope the barrel comes back for you?

Brad Y
Posts: 2018
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Re: 7mm SAUM Rechamber/Barrel Life

#59 Postby Brad Y » Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:14 pm

If you ask Brett, I’m probably one of the worst for this. I let quite a few barrels sneak up on me fouling wise. 284, 260 improved and a dasher. Once they got that bad, they never came back as good again. I tried different powders to get away from it and they never worked as good as the one I should have been using all along. That hard carbon builds up and up in layers in what he taught me was like alligator skin in the barrel. It shreds jackets apart if it gets bad enough. In the end even if you can abrasive clean it out, it always plays in the back of your head and confidence goes out the door. Confidence in your gear is everything in shooting. Go and get a fresh tube and get the confidence back up and keep shooting.

GSells
Posts: 339
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:04 pm

Re: 7mm SAUM Rechamber/Barrel Life

#60 Postby GSells » Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:26 pm

watrob wrote:The secrete is not to let carbon form in the first place (prevention is better than cure). I would rather over clean or keep clean a barrel, now some believe you shorten its life (I do not agree with that, 6PPC proves that wrong). So lets say instead of 800 rounds you get 600 because of cleaning against a barrel that say after 300 rounds is carbon fouled plus copper overlay and does not shoot, then at 400 rounds you realise the problem, the damage and fire cracking has started, you have to aggressively clean anyway and the barrel has not shot well since reaching 250 rounds and now the barrel only lasts to 600 rounds anyway.

So a clean barrel that shoots right up to 600, or a carbon fouled, fire cracked with copper layers that has gone off at 300, so how many comps have you lost. I have spoken to so many shooters who have been told all you need to do is patch occasional and never us a brush and they wonder why they shoot 1" groups at a 100yards.

I mean no ill to the Azzo, but just patching out the barrel does not get it clean, the layers build up, and if you notice when you use a brass brush they wear out pretty quick, they are softer than SS and you are using a lubricant as well. Hope the barrel comes back for you?


Hey Rob , do u have any old barrels you want to clear out ?? :mrgreen:
Haha ! But seriously!! Lol!
I use to be in the no clean brigade especially with a bronze brush , but have changed my ways !! I’ve brought a few barrels back from the dead and now they , one in particular is doing well ! I’ve seen a clubmate of mine shoot her .284 from Raton into the 4000 rounds and has only changed it for good measure and it was still wracking the x ring at loacal prize meets !!

But I agree with u Rob , it pays to keep on top of it ! But use hoppes straight after a shoot for the day , leave overnight and bronze brush out and patch out with kg or eliminator and kero solvent patch in the morning . Autosol every 100 rounds . And u really need a borescope , or one is just guessing? Lyman bore scope are quite good for the money!


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