Trail boss 357mag loads

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macguru
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Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:49 am

Trail boss 357mag loads

#1 Postby macguru » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:03 pm

Just a question for any cowboy shooters.

If you get, say a 357mag lever gun and just want to shoot light loads, say in a 1873 uberti, can you just put the cases in a tray and pour the trailboss until its up to the top of the case, the pluck them out and seat a bullet, or do you have to measure each one ? It looks to me like the max trailboss loads are about 1/2 the saami rated pressures for most cartridges ??

just asking :)

Pete
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:01 pm
Location: Penrith

Re: Trail boss 357mag loads

#2 Postby Pete » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:14 pm

Trailboss is stated to be safe due to its bulk in pretty much any case.... though apparently all bets are off if it is compressed in ANY amount.
So no, that would not be a good idea according to the manufacturer.
Cheers
Pete

bruce moulds
Posts: 2351
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

Re: Trail boss 357mag loads

#3 Postby bruce moulds » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:14 pm

macguru,
a full case will require compression of the powder.
doing this with a cast bullet will cause it to increase in diameter.
a less than ideal situation.
black powder often shoots better compressed, and the way it is done is to use a compression die prior to seating the bullet.
in fact a true cowboy load could use black powder.
for repeating rifles, investigate bullets referred to a "biglube" and use a lube suited to black powder with only natural oils, fats, and waxes.
this will keep the fouling soft.
cleaning is easier than with smokeless.
black powder cannot produce dangerous pressures, even compressed.
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880
http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

macguru
Posts: 1258
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:49 am

Re: Trail boss 357mag loads

#4 Postby macguru » Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:07 pm

Sounds like there are two no-nos there.
1. Dont crush the trail boss flakes
2. Dont gum up your gun with black powder unless you want the authentic smoke cloud :)

bruce moulds
Posts: 2351
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

Re: Trail boss 357mag loads

#5 Postby bruce moulds » Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:43 pm

you won't gum it up with black powder if you do it right.
millins of 44/40, 38/40, 32/20 rounds were loaded with black originally and shot in lever action repeaters.
it works well if you do what the old dead guys did.
also, contrary to urban myth, it is way easier to clean than smokeless.
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

bruce moulds
Posts: 2351
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

Re: Trail boss 357mag loads

#6 Postby bruce moulds » Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:27 pm

actually the 357 is not all that different to the 38 ballard extra long, a popular round in the day.
the main difference is that modern 357 brass is thicker and harder, to take modern higher pressures.
using either trailboss or black pressures the 357 cases should ideally be annealed a little softer than if using high pressure loads to guarantee obturation of the case in the chamber.
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

bruce moulds
Posts: 2351
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

Re: Trail boss 357mag loads

#7 Postby bruce moulds » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:38 am

there is another approach available.
in the time between all black and all smokeless, guys did what is called duplex loading.
harry pope was one of these.
work out the charge of black to fill the case to the base of the seated bullet.
replace 1/10 the weight of it with a fast pistol powder, and top up with black, so that the thickness of the wad is powder compression.
milk carton material suits for wads.
then seat the bullet.
this will burn the black pretty clean.
still use a black powder lube.
10 rounds rapid would really look the part on the firing line.
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

macguru
Posts: 1258
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:49 am

Re: Trail boss 357mag loads

#8 Postby macguru » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:08 pm

Bruce, thanks for all the advice. 1873 and 1866 winchesters are hard to clean , i dont know who did the job properly in the 1870s but i suspect a lot of them never made it to 1900, although a man asking me about my 1894 (C1921) said he remembered when all the Pentridge guards 1873s came on the market in melbourne.... but then they would not have had much chance to shoot them (most of the time !). Heck, there were 2 1873 actions sold on used guns this week, and i know where you could get the parts to rebuild them, but i think i will go for a uberti or a miroku...

bruce moulds
Posts: 2351
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

Re: Trail boss 357mag loads

#9 Postby bruce moulds » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:18 pm

macguru,
in lever repeaters, marlins are the easiest to clean as you can remove the bolt easily.
winchesters must be cleaned from the muzzle, which is not as bad as it sounds.
a rod guide on the muzzle is adviseable, and supporting the rifle upside down is also good.
black powder fouling will dissolve readily in water, and if you have 10% cutting oil in that water, 3 passes will clean it thoroughly and protect it from rust as well, just using a pullthrough with a firm fitting cloth on it.
the old barrels were made of much softer metal than modern ones which wear less.
black powder fouling is alkaline, and combines with natural oils and fats (tallow) to make soap in the presence of water.
this in itself aids cleaning.
also the alkalinity cannot cause rust. it takes an acid to make rust.
this can be quite a consuming interest.
winchester, umc, and other companies loaded and sold many such rounds for decades which were most successfully used.
an interesting aside is that if you google the battle of plevna, you will see what the turks did to the russians with such ammo in lever action repeaters.
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

Valk
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:45 am

Re: Trail boss 357mag loads

#10 Postby Valk » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:38 am

Hi, Andrew
I will speak you personally on the range. I do shoot single action. I also got Uberti 1873 but in a competition model. I also uses trail boss. Using the same load, I come second in a lever action comp at St Mary last year.

Wu


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