Silver Mountain SOLO ET's

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Barry Davies
Posts: 1160
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:11 pm

Re: Silver Mountain SOLO ET's

#31 Postby Barry Davies » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:48 am

As there is no answer to the contrary I take it that the more sensitive the sensor is, the more accurate is the reporting as to the shot hole position.

Barry

ger
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:12 pm

Re: Silver Mountain SOLO ET's

#32 Postby ger » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:00 pm

To a point. Too much sensitivity can be a problem. Not enough obviously can be a problem. But there are many other factors unrelated to sensor sensitivity that affect accuracy and reliability.

Our trials with a couple of open targets showed that by themselves, and when in good physical condition, they worked very well. There were two main problems: one being the effect of a moving air mass across the face (wind essentially) that effectively changes the alignment of the visual and acoustic centres. No-one (meaning shooters) noticed this that I am aware of. The other problem, that I have basically given up in trying to solve, is the tendency for shots passing nearby (in other targets) to interfere with the open sensors due to the easy and unobstructed path. Reducing sensitivity helped but introduced other problems. So, for that reason, I have basically given up on open targets if they are expected to co-reside with other targets.

Chambered (enclosed) targets have a different set of problems and sensor sensitivity is definitely important. Too much can be bad.

It is possible to electronically alter sensitivity (amplifier gain) but it is non-trivial and I don't think you guys would pay for it. But it would solve a lot of problems if sensor sensitivity could be dynamically altered to suit the prevailing conditions - namely the range distance being shot, bullet mass, terminal velocity, air temperature, and altitude at the time (density altitude) being the "biggies". The physical condition of the target is a major factor also.

Geoff.
Ozscore.

Daniel Chisholm
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 8:40 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Silver Mountain SOLO ET's

#33 Postby Daniel Chisholm » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:16 am

Barry Davies wrote:Thanks Peter, that satisfactorily explains my questions.
I would think that on a range such as ours where no more that two targets would be in used any one time, the possibility of this happening would be so remote as to not give it consideration.
However a question remains -- would a more sensitive sensor(s) contribute to increased accuracy in reporting the position of the shot hole?
Barry


Hi Barry,

Sorry for disappearing for a bit. It might seem that a highly sensitive senor would improve measurement accuracy. It turns out to be not very helpful in practice. Once you have measured a shock timing well enough (to a sub-microsecond Standard Deviation), the job is done well enough. Although a naive electronic target designer might not be aware of this, and the other tradeoffs involved, and pursue a design using highly sensitive sensors. There are other far-bigger problems created by highly-sensitive sensors:
  • interference from MANY neighbouring targets, and therefore higher shot loss rates
  • vulnerability to trigger on "conducted sound" caused by bullet hitting target frame (or in cases of extreme oversensitivity, an overly-stiff target board material)
  • the possibility of triggering on noise caused by wind, and therefore losing a shot reading on one or more sensor channels

Do read this in conjunction with what ger (Geoff) writes, all of his stuff is worth reading carefully and well.

Pommy Chris
Posts: 210
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:05 pm

Re: Silver Mountain SOLO ET's

#34 Postby Pommy Chris » Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:46 pm

More tests done and next week time permitting will shoot maybe 30 shots and log file them and plot them. From Sunday shoot tests target picked up shots 2 targets away BUT they had a red triangle and an * next to score indicating rouge shot. Daniel said he is working on firmware update to eliminate these shots as on a shoot with lots of targets it would be a nightmare with everyone's shot showing all the time on all targets even if marked red. I cant see it would be very hard to get the firmware update to ignore stray shots unless they are just off target or something. Daniel will send files over tomorrow when I get a minute. Accuracy wa hard to test today with over 150 bullets shot on the target but will test that later in the week, however we did shoot a test range with a few shots up high, a few down low and a few east and a few west which I will plot next week and compare to log file measurements.
What is positive though at this point is everyone got the target up on their phone or device, everyone enjoyed watching others scores come up. We did not loose a single shot all day and shooting from 10.30am to 2.30pm there was still most of the battery left so we could have shot much longer. If accuracy is good (still testing) and the firmware update stops picking up shots this is going to be a great system for clubs. Just need to prove accuracy...
Chris


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