nswra queens 2018

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bruce moulds
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Re: nswra queens 2018

#16 Postby bruce moulds » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:21 pm

jase,
smilies or no smilies, your point is a good one.
remember the word "rentacrowd" as you work out just how much shooting alongside a queens event costs you.
it is a bit like in the 1800s when black africans were expected to be christianized.
but heaven forbid, if a black christian assumed he would become a priest, that was not in the formula.
they had to know their place.
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880
http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

johnk
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Re: nswra queens 2018

#17 Postby johnk » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:54 pm

What's your solution then, Bruce?

Matt P
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Re: nswra queens 2018

#18 Postby Matt P » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:01 pm

d
Last edited by Matt P on Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

budget
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Location: upper north south australia

Re: nswra queens 2018

#19 Postby budget » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:29 pm

Matt P wrote:How about we run a F Class Only National Event, 3 days if individual and 2 days of teams and remove F Class from current Queens events ???
Matt P


look forward to seeing you move that motion at your next meeting!
Paul S.

Matt P
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Re: nswra queens 2018

#20 Postby Matt P » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:07 pm

Paul
I was simply offering a solution.
Johns point of view comes across as "be happy TR lets you shoot with them" and Bruce's is F Class should go it's own way.
Neither group can survive on it's own at the moment and this would be one way to prove it.
Matt P

johnk
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Re: nswra queens 2018

#21 Postby johnk » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:50 pm

Not what I said at all , Matt.

The state Associations welcomed F class into the State championships progressively from 1997, but I acknowledge, not with universal consistency. If you need specifics, those who compete at the QRA Queens will know that they will be awarded a similar proportion of badges per discipline & if the necessary quantities weren't correctly anticipated, shooters are awarded IOU card badges until the deficit is reordered.

people of goodwill irrespective of classification have assisted the refinement of F class rules with the result that we now have stable classes & a high degree of international consistency.

Most importantly, FO was retrieved from the oblivion that a very small group of well intentioned pioneer shooters had consigned it so it's become a more than credible & vigorous discipline.

My take is not that F class should cop it sweet but that it should focus on the whole of open range shooting sports occasionally & not just its individual and personal issues. As an example, there's been a lot of crap flying from a limited group because the NRAA voted at ICFRA to accept a 155.5 grain projectile limit. At the time they considered all elements of the vote, F/TR shooters voted on this site with a for and against almost equal -within 1 vote, though that has changed a point or two recently. Those against the motion voters cannot claim that in any way they represent as significant & meaningful reflection of the totality of the discipline & yet they are happy to can NRAA & demand explanations.

And as far as working together for the good of F class, I posted on this forum an explanation that NRAA had formed the view that now we are competing internationally, local rules should be as near as possibly consistent with ICFRA rules & specifically, I offered a reasonable process to have the wet weather protection rule considered at the last Worlds. F classers failed to act & as a result it will be some years before such an issue can be reconsidered.

If it comes to that, when was the last time that you presented your take on any issue of concern to your local councillor to consider at state association level & shared it with your fellow shooters to gain their support?

I guess what I'm saying is that I have formed the opinion that there's a group of people in our sport only too happy to winge & tip when their personal space is challenged but missing in action when the hard yards are necessary.

John K

sungazer
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Re: nswra queens 2018

#22 Postby sungazer » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:39 pm

It may not be a very welcome idea just a F class was not widely accepted to the Target shooting sport. However an idea to increase numbers to clubs and to competitions would to be to welcome the Service Rifle Shooting sport. There are a lot of new tactical type rifles that can fir into this category and there are lots of owners of them looking to shoot them at long range. They are capable of hitting targets so don't give me the we are worried about out electronic targets routine. If you really need the person to prove themselves first put a paper target up on a frame for proving.

Matt P
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Re: nswra queens 2018

#23 Postby Matt P » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:41 pm

John
Seeing as I am a NSW Councillor, I have put forward many F Class points of view to the NSWRA and have spent countless hours promoting F Class over the years, what's your point ???
You wrote:
"Jase, I'm surprised. The Queen's prize is an event that has existed from the 1860s for a linear descent of iron sight equipped rifles. The name & the chairing are traditions associated with that discipline. It seems to be grotesque that anybody could perceive the award should automatically apply to other disciplines while the two styles continue to coexist."

I guess I took the above statement the wrong way.
Regards
Matt Paroz

bruce moulds
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Re: nswra queens 2018

#24 Postby bruce moulds » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:43 pm

guys,
just to put things straight, i believe that the best future for long range nra style shooting is for tr and fclass to be united as equal members of the team.
i have worked for this for years, at all levels from club on up.
our own club does well at this, even having a handicap system that allows all disciplines to compete against each other.
budget suggests i am remiss in not attending prize shoots.
if he knew me in years gone by, he would remember me attending every prize shoot just so that clubs would include fclass next time, and remember me being a pain in the proverbial trying to get fclass into new club prize shoots.
he would also remember me in every queens up to a point in history, and know that i have shot in canberra and other places.
all that hard work many of us did years ago to get this show on the road seems to have come to a standstill due such things as the case mentioned re sara queens an inability by the old garde to see that this is a product to market, but rather a thing to guard like a dog in a manger.
when we are not allowed in, it can come as no surprise that we go knocking on other doors.
the old claim of tradition cannot be taken seriously when you know that the original queens by necessity had to be shot bisley style due to the use of muzzle loading rifles.
tr has come so far from its roots that it cannot claim tradition any more than fclass can.
in fact the original queens was for military category rifles, and current tr rifles would come under the heading of any rifle.
modern tr sights are so far from the original queens sights that they are more like scopes than the originals.
a completely different deal
but then so many that claim tradition seem to know so little about history.
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

Hangfire
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Location: South Oz.

Re: nswra queens 2018

#25 Postby Hangfire » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:20 pm

So, two shoots may be held at the same time, big deal!!
I would rather see two ranges being used and shot on by people who actually want to be there than one range being used and shot on where 50% of the field are there just to bulk up the numbers.
If you take the time to compare the list of names from last year’s NSW Queens and the Match Rifle Long Range Nationals then you may find 2 people who actually shot both events. Hardly a show stopping number I would have thought.
Paul has a history of knocking down any alternative that may or may not hinder attendance figures at a more “traditional” shoot. He launched a similar broadside when a Palma Range shoot was scheduled on the same day as a long held bush OPM. That OPM has never had F-Open on the menu and of those who attended the Palma shoot none had any intention of attending the bush event. I think he would have preferred us to stay home and twiddle our thumbs rather than go out and enjoy ourselves shooting the ranges that appeal to us and being active participants in the sport.
Choice is good. Let the shooters shoot the ranges that appeal to them. If you try and force other stuff down their throat you will turn them away and they will go find an alternative.

bruce moulds
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Re: nswra queens 2018

#26 Postby bruce moulds » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:44 pm

timmy,
which of the 2 events did paul choose to attend himself?
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

Hangfire
Posts: 114
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Location: South Oz.

Re: nswra queens 2018

#27 Postby Hangfire » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:29 pm

bruce moulds wrote:timmy,
which of the 2 events did paul choose to attend himself?
keep safe,
bruce.

If memory serves me well, I believe neither!

budget
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: upper north south australia

Re: nswra queens 2018

#28 Postby budget » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:32 pm

Ok bruce just to make you happy i was in Brisbane having a bit of a practice,very difficult to go to everything when you commit to other events.
As to the other guys statements the only thing i have been guilty of is vigorously trying to convince organizers
to plan their events so that all clubs can maximize their attendances. Surely this should be high on everyones wish list,the event,the club and the movement in general. after all this is what this post is supposed to be about.

P.S now don't be afraid to put your name to your posts either Timothy.
regards paul.

bainp
Posts: 45
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Location: Wagga Wagga, Australia

Re: nswra queens 2018

#29 Postby bainp » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:54 pm

Going back to the very first point that was made on this forum subject, that the 2018 NSWRA Queens and the 2018 Australian Match Rifle and Long Range F Class Champs and 1500yd Challenge will clash. I am not an official spokesperson for the NSW Match rifle Association, I do have background knowledge of the reasons.
In February 2017 NSW Match Rifle and LR F Class Association were invited to host the October 2018 event at Coonabarabran . The Coonabarabran range is made available to the NSW MR Association for use, but the local Coonabarabran club do not have any members that are also members of NSW MR & LR FC or compete at the distances in excess of 1000 yards. The local club are extremely helpful in preparing the range for the long range event as it falls on the week and weekend following their own prize meeting, and so the whole range preparation is done in one go by local members. NSW MR & LR FC are highly highly appreciative of this. The nearest members of NSW MR & LR FC are resident of towns and cities that are more than 7 hours drive from Coonabarbran. It would be impossible for NSW MR & LR FC members to prepare the range if the competition was to be held at any other time than in first week of October. It would also be a bit rich to expect the local club to prepare the range for us on a second occasion so that we (NSW MR & LR FC) can run the LR shoot at another time during the year.
If the event is not held in the week immediately following their prize meeting then it won’t be held at all.
I have personally made 3 trips to Coonabarabran in 2017, in all 3500 km of travel just for target preparation. This year the travel will probably be the same. On one of those trips I had 3 other members of my local club come along with me to help. None of us are on the executive of the association, we just want to help get the shoots up and running.
As I said earlier, in February of 2017 NSW Match Rifle and LR F Class Association were invited to host the October 2018 event at Coonabarabran . This invitation was accepted at the time and in December of 2017 we found that the 2018 NSW Queens was moved to a date that conflicted. There was 11 months of planning that was suddenly disrupted. Considering that we rely on the local Coonabarabran club for so much preparation work, this shoot would not have gone ahead at any other date than adjacent to their prize meeting date.
Regards - Philip

bruce moulds
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Re: nswra queens 2018

#30 Postby bruce moulds » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:30 pm

good on you guys philip.
your post makes the situation pretty clear :shock:
let's hope you get the respect you deserve from all quaretrs.
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM


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