NRAA Queens

Results, photos of recent events, plan future events, let people know where you'll be competing.

Moderator: Mod

Message
Author
Matt P
Posts: 1198
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:22 pm

NRAA Queens

#1 Postby Matt P » Mon May 29, 2017 1:13 pm

Hi All
National Queens is coming up, does anyone know if there will be squadding this year ??
Regards
Matt P

Rebel105
Posts: 504
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:22 am

Re: NRAA Queens

#2 Postby Rebel105 » Mon May 29, 2017 3:16 pm

Matt,
I was talking to Bob Pederson at the SARA queens a few weeks ago about squadding. He mentioned there was a possibility of a motion to go to the NRAA board following SARA Queens. He was recommending the NRAA adopt the SARA method.

So in answer to your question No not yet.

lewis reynolds
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:37 pm
Location: sawyers gully

Re: NRAA Queens

#3 Postby lewis reynolds » Mon May 29, 2017 5:59 pm

=D> =D> =D>

Matt P
Posts: 1198
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:22 pm

Re: NRAA Queens

#4 Postby Matt P » Mon May 29, 2017 7:43 pm

Thanks Geoff

Wouldn't the NRAA need the states to put this forward and agree, like the change in the ET rules or hosting the FCWC in 2025/6. Or can they action things off their own bat ?? :-" :-&

Matt P

RDavies
Posts: 1766
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:23 pm
Location: Singleton NSW

Re: NRAA Queens

#5 Postby RDavies » Mon May 29, 2017 8:24 pm

OK, lets see. No squadding. Still playing at 300. Electronic targets.
Does anyone have any good news about the nationals?

jasmay
Posts: 879
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:26 pm

Re: NRAA Queens

#6 Postby jasmay » Tue May 30, 2017 6:33 am

They way I understand it there will be squadding in some form as there was last year, how the competition is run is up to the NRAA they don't need permission to change format. ET's are a definite as is the 300.

Matt P
Posts: 1198
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:22 pm

Re: NRAA Queens

#7 Postby Matt P » Tue May 30, 2017 8:05 am

Hi Jase
Lets hope it's better than last years random squadding :roll: .
You're right a hosting body can run a match as it sees fit provided all safety rules are meet. My point is/was when a question is asked of the NRAA and they don't want/care about the issue we get "that needs to come from the states".
Matt P

KHGS
Posts: 526
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:46 am
Location: Cowra NSW
Contact:

Re: NRAA Queens

#8 Postby KHGS » Tue May 30, 2017 8:50 am

RDavies wrote:OK, lets see. No squadding. Still playing at 300. Electronic targets.
Does anyone have any good news about the nationals?


No squadding would be a good thing in my opinion, not in the spirit of the sport & to me smacks of elitism!!
300 is silly, I do agree with that though.
Just the opinions & 2 cents worth of an old bloke that has been in this game at a highish level both competitively & in admin for close to 50 years.
Keith H.

ShaneG
Posts: 394
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:25 pm
Location: Cairns
Contact:

Re: NRAA Queens

#9 Postby ShaneG » Tue May 30, 2017 10:22 am

Crikey , here we go again!?
How many times does it have to be said that squadding is not about elitism or wanting the "best conditions"?
It is about shooting AT THE SAME TIME as your peers.
Don't care if best or worst conditions just as long as it is the same bloody time!
I have spent a lot of $ travelling to shoots; entries and ammo.
The level of competition is very high now in all classes and one cannot afford a bad range and expect to place.

Australia cannot get squadding right and previous attempts have failed although personally I have not experienced the SA system since 2015?
Yet the rest of the world mainly does manage it.
The US system places TR on dedicated targets and same with F Class.
The relays are by discipline and each days results reflect the position one shoots the next day.
At least the top 20 in each class / discipline will be on the line at the same time.

The top level competitors go to a shoot with a desire to win and don't expect to achieve it with luck but random conditions and board position guarantees this is the case.
I have had full board separations from my direct competitors where first down in mild conditions shoot and it is a matter of how many X are on the board.
Then 90 minutes later in the old Brisbane late morning switheroo I experience 5 x 180 degree shifts in a 10 shot match. Easy to then drop 4-6 points?
Is that "fair" and in the spirit of the match?
If so then we may as well save ammo and just toss coins!

Keith, I hope you understand I am not whinging about shooting in a difficult period - I think those challenging conditions are those which bring improved skills and sort out the positions a bit more. BUT I want my direct competitors experiencing the SAME CHALLENGES at the SAME TIME!

jasmay
Posts: 879
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:26 pm

Re: NRAA Queens

#10 Postby jasmay » Tue May 30, 2017 10:22 am

KHGS wrote:
RDavies wrote:OK, lets see. No squadding. Still playing at 300. Electronic targets.
Does anyone have any good news about the nationals?


No squadding would be a good thing in my opinion, not in the spirit of the sport & to me smacks of elitism!!

Keith H.


Really Keith? So pot luck is in the spirit.

Squadding isn't about elitism, it is about competitors in the same division shooting at the same time, or as close to as possible so conditions are as close to comparable as they can be.

jasmay
Posts: 879
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:26 pm

Re: NRAA Queens

#11 Postby jasmay » Tue May 30, 2017 10:28 am

ShaneG wrote:Crikey , here we go again!?
I have had full board separations from my direct competitors where first down in mild conditions shoot and it is a matter of how many X are on the board.
Then 90 minutes later in the old Brisbane late morning switheroo I experience 5 x 180 degree shifts in a 10 shot match. Easy to then drop 4-6 points?
Is that "fair" and in the spirit of the match?
If so then we may as well save ammo and just toss coins!



Beat me to it Shane, one occasion I was the last competitor on the range still shooting, not the last to shoot, the last on the range, everyone had packed up and left for lunch my vehicle and the RO's car and my scorers were the only ones left, that gives you an indication of just how far from the other competitors I was shooting, more than 2hrs after the first in my division had shot, with not a single sole shooting at the same time as me. That cannot possibly be in the spirit of this sport, if it is, I am shooting it the wrong game...

ShaneG
Posts: 394
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:25 pm
Location: Cairns
Contact:

Re: NRAA Queens

#12 Postby ShaneG » Tue May 30, 2017 12:25 pm

Jason
Exactly the same thing happened to me last year at 8 or 900!
I was the last to clear the mound with the late morning switch in full bloom!
Beginning of the boards - 60's everywhere!
I was at least 90 minutes from other F/TR competitors.

I know Mark was initially the major voice on this but they only half addressed the issue.

I fear how long it take to implement a proper system?
Shane

AlanF
Posts: 6602
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:22 pm
Location: Maffra, Vic

Re: NRAA Queens

#13 Postby AlanF » Tue May 30, 2017 12:26 pm

I don't think the argument for squadding is cut and dried. But if you were ever going to have it in Australia, then the National Queens would be the most deserving. The higher the level of competition, the more effort should be made to have the best shooter win. Contrast that with a local club shoot, and most just shoot wherever and whenever is convenient. Even at club prize-meetings, some don't go to much trouble with rotating across the mound let alone squadding. Personally, I'd like to see performance-based squadding at all Queens level shoots, but only if it clearly works to give a just reward to the best performing shooters.

ShaneG
Posts: 394
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:25 pm
Location: Cairns
Contact:

Re: NRAA Queens

#14 Postby ShaneG » Tue May 30, 2017 12:42 pm

Hi Alan
It works well in the US and I have seen it at 2 US Nationals ; SOA match and Bergers.
One thing that does happen is that target allocation can be consistently favourable to certain competitors there???!!
So - on a 100 target range such as Raton and Ben Avery - not a complete level playing field!

KHGS
Posts: 526
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:46 am
Location: Cowra NSW
Contact:

Re: NRAA Queens

#15 Postby KHGS » Tue May 30, 2017 1:34 pm

ShaneG wrote:Crikey , here we go again!?
How many times does it have to be said that squadding is not about elitism or wanting the "best conditions"?
It is about shooting AT THE SAME TIME as your peers.
Don't care if best or worst conditions just as long as it is the same bloody time!
I have spent a lot of $ travelling to shoots; entries and ammo.
The level of competition is very high now in all classes and one cannot afford a bad range and expect to place.

Australia cannot get squadding right and previous attempts have failed although personally I have not experienced the SA system since 2015?
Yet the rest of the world mainly does manage it.
The US system places TR on dedicated targets and same with F Class.
The relays are by discipline and each days results reflect the position one shoots the next day.
At least the top 20 in each class / discipline will be on the line at the same time.

The top level competitors go to a shoot with a desire to win and don't expect to achieve it with luck but random conditions and board position guarantees this is the case.
I have had full board separations from my direct competitors where first down in mild conditions shoot and it is a matter of how many X are on the board.
Then 90 minutes later in the old Brisbane late morning switheroo I experience 5 x 180 degree shifts in a 10 shot match. Easy to then drop 4-6 points?
Is that "fair" and in the spirit of the match?
If so then we may as well save ammo and just toss coins!

Keith, I hope you understand I am not whinging about shooting in a difficult period - I think those challenging conditions are those which bring improved skills and sort out the positions a bit more. BUT I want my direct competitors experiencing the SAME CHALLENGES at the SAME TIME!


Shane, as stated those are MY opinions which I believe in a democratic society I am allowed to voice, I also respect your right to voicing your opinion!! Having said that, it has been proven to MY satisfaction that the squadding methods I have seen exercised to date have a propensity to be unfair on one group to make it "fair" for another, hence my referral to "elitism". Which means that efforts to "make it fair" in turn can actually make it seem unfair. I do not think it is possible to make it fairer than it is now.
One of the good things about ET's is that they reduce the time taken to shoot a range which in turn reduces the "luck of the draw" to some extent.
Many Queens Prizes have been won & lost on luck of the draw since the dawn of NRAA style competitions. Having said that, I do applaud any effort to "make it fairer" but not at the expense of others, it is open range shooting over several ranges & days, that & ET's may go some way towards a solution to the perceived problem. As an aside I remember the days when on some smaller capacity ranges it took up to 4 hours to complete a range often with many across the board weather patterns over that period, not good, much better now.
Keith H.
P.S. Shane, once again my opinions only!!!!!


Return to “Events”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests