NRAA Queens

Results, photos of recent events, plan future events, let people know where you'll be competing.

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ShaneG
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Re: NRAA Queens

#46 Postby ShaneG » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:57 pm

Alan
The Hexta functioned very well.
There needs to be a more in depth tutorial on their use?
We were not schooled on handling misses [ especially within the sighters?] or dismissing crossfires?
These were not supposed to be carried out without an RO present.
When our target experienced this situation our RO did not know the procedure to follow.
Machine gun cross fired on VICKI's target and with plenty of confusion her next shot was 4+ minutes later without an optional sighter. Fortunately for him it was his first sighter!
Unfortunately for her she was in the middle of a good score.
Many reasons for this - scorers didn't know how to disclaim the shot, RO wasn't present and et helpers not versed in our rules, who thinks fast enough to start a clock after a shot?
Vick didn't think at time that et records time between shots!

After witnessing this Queens I would like to see some changes to bring us in line with overseas competitions.
For example shoot the 8,9 and 1000 ranges only, add some 15 shot matches and also Bisley style.

Squadding attempt was abandoned after 2 ranges on day one of lead up.
Never worked.
F Class Nationals only way to fix that or at very least allocate targets by discipline.
It will happen one day?
Maybe I will live long enough to see it, hopefully!?

Congratulations especially to Stuart, Steve, Gary, Liam and Jason and all the TR placegetters, but also everyone else who helped make the shoot enjoyable.
Notable was Phil Brooks first F/TR competition! Straight up a force to be watched!


Standard of competition by far the highest I have seen in Australia to date!
I expect quite a few of our people to do very well in the individuals in Canada!

I agree with Tim N and have said for years I don't want to shoot et at big matches.
They are fanatasic for clubs especially ours in very hot climates.
Australia has embraced them and our sport has changed forever.

Shane
Last edited by ShaneG on Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

plumbs7
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Re: NRAA Queens

#47 Postby plumbs7 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:18 pm

I would rather stay out of the argument, but I did come up with an idea ! Forget the delay idea and have a minimum time limit! ??? 2-3 minutes ?

I eventually warmed up to the ETs and liked them ! Cross fire shot rules were addressed on the last day and needs rules to be updated. Squadding in my opinion worked well . Everyone still shot pretty much the same time . Having to stop for tr and break just took too much time . We would have been shooting in the dark ! Just my opinion and I'll make enemies here to add to the large number I already have ! But machine gunning them under minute is just bad sportsmanship! It's going to change our sport in the wrong direction!
I can feel my ears burning already !
Great Comp where if u had a bad range you were bungled out near last ! I'm not really there to win but shoot my best and in the that case with a number of PB broken I won anyway!
Set myself a new record for 800,900,900,1000. Dropping only a point !
So very happy !

Also Congrats to the winners , good shootin!
Last edited by plumbs7 on Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

BATattack
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Re: NRAA Queens

#48 Postby BATattack » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:55 pm

Congratulations to all the winners! It was a very competitive event :-)

This was my first major event shot on ET's and I prefer manual targets. I like being able to see the plots after each range and we didn't experience and technical difficulties but I prefer having a spotter on the target..

Rapid fire f class. . . . . . . . Put a small delay in. It only needs to be 10-15 seconds but long enough that scorers have time to confirm and record the score and pause long enough actually read wind.

Squadding. Sorry Keith but I have no idea how squadding affects anyone adversely and how it creates elitism so could you please explain? It worked perfectly at the SA queens but there was some confusion on how it should be run from the RO's and the NRAA and it was abandoned.

bsouthernau
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Re: NRAA Queens

#49 Postby bsouthernau » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:53 am

ShaneG wrote:Alan
The Hexta functioned very well.
There needs to be a more in depth tutorial on their use?


Shane


It would help if Hexta reviewed their policy of only supplying their user manual to customers. If you go to a manual target event the SSRs state very clearly how you go about scoring. Why not be able to be similarly informed before attending an ET event?

plumbs7
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Re: NRAA Queens

#50 Postby plumbs7 » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:18 am

I'll start an equipment list if you like!
Stole Panda action
Mac f class stock
7/08 Ai Bart , pseco ( day 1 lead up)
.284 Brux , M Fairbarn ( day 2 lead up)
.284 Bart , M Fairbarn ( Queens )

Nightforce Comp fcr.

PhilD
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Re: NRAA Queens

#51 Postby PhilD » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:58 pm

I think something has to be said about all the negative and derogative comments that have been made on these pages and other forum posts about "Machine Gunning".

People seem to think that it is easy to "machine gun" and that somehow one gets an unfair advantage from that.

If you look at the current National Champion (deserving of the respect that the title demands), he was shooting quite quickly, but, in certain conditions. It wasn't always a case of lying down and shooting off as quickly as possible.

The term machine gunning is also not accurate. There is more to shooting accurately with speed and precision than lying down and pulling a trigger.

For you to achieve this, you have to have the highest level of skill in developing your rifle and ammunition to be accurate. Your skills in holding the rifle have to also be of the highest order.

You need to read the wind just as strongly, in some ways, you need to react even quicker. You have to make the decision much quicker whether to go or no-go, if you miss the change or try to race it, you can get punished and you just lose points faster. The switching conditions at the recent National Queens certainly proved that you could lose a lot of points very quickly, whether you shot fast or slow.

There have been a large number of fast shooters over the years and there has been limited success, so I think Michael deserves all the respect for winning and the folks that want to bitch and moan should maybe spend their time improving their own skills.

I've had to re-write this post about 16 times and remove some more emotive responses, so with that, I'll dissolve back into the background.

Phil

macguru
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Re: NRAA Queens

#52 Postby macguru » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:04 pm

Well said Phil, I would love to see some of the earlier drafts one day ;)

DenisA
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Re: NRAA Queens

#53 Postby DenisA » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Phil, its not just Michael that desrves credit for his winning performance in FOpen, its also NathanJ in FSA and ShaunW in FSB. They all performed brilliantly and the common element was that they all have really perfected the tool of machine gunning. Discussing the ins and outs of that technique should not be negative.

RAVEN
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Re: NRAA Queens

#54 Postby RAVEN » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:51 pm

Phil, I don't think ppl are trying to take anything away from the winners
these ppl did it best over the 10 ranges and all deserver the =D> applause =D> of their fellow competitors.

what my issue is how unfair is it when you come from a manual target system and need to shoot fast to be competitive because thats what worked didn’t it!
what's the alternative I bet you come from a club with ETs would you travel across AUS to shoot on manual targets??

We need to be very mindful that this may put some off in going to ET events and some to Manual target events. We don’t want to change the nature of our sport by embracing technology without consideration to these things.

Are those that protest loudly about no delay only those that are practicing week to week at their club on perfecting their speed shooting technique.
I say these pll are willing to screw over fclass for their own selfish gain.

oh, I can hear the comments coming that a competitor can use their time allocation how they wish.
Yep that’s corrects
I would suggest a time delay that equalled a good pit service would be adequate 8sec -10sec

Just let me put this into perspective some individuals spent less time shooting their 10 ranges than the time allocated for 1 X 300yard range
12m13 seconds for 10 ranges 2 sighters & 10 to count WOW no wind reading required wait for the condition and GO
TR isn’t effected as they need time to get in to position after every shot.

If you care about where this may take F-Class talk to your state Assoc. as this is the only way we will get change

RB :D

DenisA
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Re: NRAA Queens

#55 Postby DenisA » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:17 am

I'd like to be clear and reiterate. The crime is not competitors shooting fast. The crime is that ET's allow us to shoot fast. A dividing game changer that brings more negatives than positives.

RAVEN
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Re: NRAA Queens

#56 Postby RAVEN » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:02 am

Spot on Denis

It’s not the fault of the competitor it’s an oversight by our assoc. that by embracing new technology has created this issue.
I’m all for shooting fast but ET’s allow us to go to a whole new level IMO and there are now inconsistencies around the country.
RB

RDavies
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Re: NRAA Queens

#57 Postby RDavies » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:30 am

Sorry to change the subject but once again congratulations to the winners of each division, they did well to beat a lot of good shooters. I hope they are enjoying being Australian Champions for a year.

plumbs7
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Re: NRAA Queens

#58 Postby plumbs7 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:07 pm

RDavies wrote:Sorry to change the subject but once again congratulations to the winners of each division, they did well to beat a lot of good shooters. I hope they are enjoying being Australian Champions for a year.

I would like to second that too! The rules need looking at not the Champions that won in one of the best Nationals with the Quality field that was in attendance! Again Congratulations!

May we remember this Nationals for how tough it was and forgot the et issue !

BATattack
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Re: NRAA Queens

#59 Postby BATattack » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:51 pm

PhilD wrote:I think something has to be said about all the negative and derogative comments that have been made on these pages and other forum posts about "Machine Gunning".

People seem to think that it is easy to "machine gun" and that somehow one gets an unfair advantage from that.

If you look at the current National Champion (deserving of the respect that the title demands), he was shooting quite quickly, but, in certain conditions. It wasn't always a case of lying down and shooting off as quickly as possible.

The term machine gunning is also not accurate. There is more to shooting accurately with speed and precision than lying down and pulling a trigger.

For you to achieve this, you have to have the highest level of skill in developing your rifle and ammunition to be accurate. Your skills in holding the rifle have to also be of the highest order.

You need to read the wind just as strongly, in some ways, you need to react even quicker. You have to make the decision much quicker whether to go or no-go, if you miss the change or try to race it, you can get punished and you just lose points faster. The switching conditions at the recent National Queens certainly proved that you could lose a lot of points very quickly, whether you shot fast or slow.

There have been a large number of fast shooters over the years and there has been limited success, so I think Michael deserves all the respect for winning and the folks that want to bitch and moan should maybe spend their time improving their own skills.

I've had to re-write this post about 16 times and remove some more emotive responses, so with that, I'll dissolve back into the background.

Phil


I totally agree with your sentiments Phil! Micheal and other rapid fire shooters have mastered a skill which is within the rules. There is a skill picking when to run and when to stop while being able to accurately aim and fire a 7mm At the same time.

Micheal and others selected a strategy that was appropriate for the targets and the weather conditions at the event and that's what the game is about and deserve the title of national champion! !

My previous post wasn't intended to take away from that achievement. Like I said they operated within the rules (unlike some exceeding ME limits, clamping and using incorrect front "bags") so i guess the real question to the group should be "do we want to see f class become a run and gun or read and shoot sport?"

A couple of factors which I think should be considered in answering that question.

Shooters that normally use electronic targets may find rapid fire shooting less effective with a slow Manual target and vise versa.

Shooters that favor rapid fire shooting would be disadvantaged at events that are shot bilsley style.

Does rapid fire shooting promote the spectacul or image of the sport to the wider public and new shooters?

I see both sides of the coin but have my reasons for savoring my time on the mound.


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