NRAA Queens

Results, photos of recent events, plan future events, let people know where you'll be competing.

Moderator: Mod

Message
Author
Pommy Chris
Posts: 246
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:05 pm

Re: NRAA Queens

#16 Postby Pommy Chris » Tue May 30, 2017 8:07 pm

KHGS wrote:
ShaneG wrote:Crikey , here we go again!?
How many times does it have to be said that squadding is not about elitism or wanting the "best conditions"?
It is about shooting AT THE SAME TIME as your peers.
Don't care if best or worst conditions just as long as it is the same bloody time!
I have spent a lot of $ travelling to shoots; entries and ammo.
The level of competition is very high now in all classes and one cannot afford a bad range and expect to place.

Australia cannot get squadding right and previous attempts have failed although personally I have not experienced the SA system since 2015?
Yet the rest of the world mainly does manage it.
The US system places TR on dedicated targets and same with F Class.
The relays are by discipline and each days results reflect the position one shoots the next day.
At least the top 20 in each class / discipline will be on the line at the same time.

The top level competitors go to a shoot with a desire to win and don't expect to achieve it with luck but random conditions and board position guarantees this is the case.
I have had full board separations from my direct competitors where first down in mild conditions shoot and it is a matter of how many X are on the board.
Then 90 minutes later in the old Brisbane late morning switheroo I experience 5 x 180 degree shifts in a 10 shot match. Easy to then drop 4-6 points?
Is that "fair" and in the spirit of the match?
If so then we may as well save ammo and just toss coins!

Keith, I hope you understand I am not whinging about shooting in a difficult period - I think those challenging conditions are those which bring improved skills and sort out the positions a bit more. BUT I want my direct competitors experiencing the SAME CHALLENGES at the SAME TIME!


Shane, as stated those are MY opinions which I believe in a democratic society I am allowed to voice, I also respect your right to voicing your opinion!! Having said that, it has been proven to MY satisfaction that the squadding methods I have seen exercised to date have a propensity to be unfair on one group to make it "fair" for another, hence my referral to "elitism". Which means that efforts to "make it fair" in turn can actually make it seem unfair. I do not think it is possible to make it fairer than it is now.
One of the good things about ET's is that they reduce the time taken to shoot a range which in turn reduces the "luck of the draw" to some extent.
Many Queens Prizes have been won & lost on luck of the draw since the dawn of NRAA style competitions. Having said that, I do applaud any effort to "make it fairer" but not at the expense of others, it is open range shooting over several ranges & days, that & ET's may go some way towards a solution to the perceived problem. As an aside I remember the days when on some smaller capacity ranges it took up to 4 hours to complete a range often with many across the board weather patterns over that period, not good, much better now.
Keith H.
P.S. Shane, once again my opinions only!!!!!

Sorry, have to agree with Shane here, we need squadding. It worked in the NQRA Queens both this year and last and it worked in the SARA Queens just gone perfectly too. F class has evolved to a point that dropping shots puts you out of the race so we all in the same discipline need to shoot at the same time. In the Sara Queens for example on one day scores were good at the start and when F open shot THEY were getting scores in the low 50's. Without squadding (and it has happened to me) someone who you are up against gets a slot early on and an hour later when you shoot it is horrible and everyone is getting 50 as a good score. When this happens you may as well pack up and go home, this is the system that is totally unfair not squadding.
Chris

ShaneG
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:25 pm
Location: Cairns
Contact:

Re: NRAA Queens

#17 Postby ShaneG » Tue May 30, 2017 8:08 pm

Keith,
I have the experience of seeing it work almost 100% in the US.
About 95% better than out local "attempts"?

Got an interesting query just come up as an aside to e targets?
What will happen if u are maybe last shooter on board at 300 and want a new centre?
They will have to have some pit duty personnel available?
On manuals at that stupid range for F Class every second competitor needs a new target centre to be able to see score lines? Will be a little easier due to no patches but will still represent a problem and competitor has leg image right to request new centre?,!!

Matt P
Posts: 1294
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:22 pm

Re: NRAA Queens

#18 Postby Matt P » Tue May 30, 2017 10:12 pm

I don't have a problem with squadding, when it's actually done right. The way it was run last year was pathetic at best. It was also very easy to fix but individuals were too arrogant to make a small change to turn what we had to put up with, into actual squadding.
Matt P

KHGS
Posts: 633
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:46 am
Location: Cowra NSW
Contact:

Re: NRAA Queens

#19 Postby KHGS » Wed May 31, 2017 8:14 am

Matt P wrote:I don't have a problem with squadding, when it's actually done right. The way it was run last year was pathetic at best. It was also very easy to fix but individuals were too arrogant to make a small change to turn what we had to put up with, into actual squadding.
Matt P


As I said all along FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN TO DATE! When something is done badly it puts the cause back behind the 8-ball. I rest my case on that point!!!!
Have any of you shot at Bisley???? There is squadding for you, e.g. the first squad will shoot 300 at 9am & the last squad may shoot it at 5pm. You can imagine the weather changes that go on throughout the day!!!
Keith H.

jasmay
Posts: 980
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:26 pm

Re: NRAA Queens

#20 Postby jasmay » Wed May 31, 2017 9:18 am

The squadding at SARA was very well done, some people have it right it would seem.

Keith, when we have attendance at the levels of Bisley, we'll worry about that then, until that happens, we could be doing a lot better...

AlanF
Posts: 6796
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:22 pm
Location: Maffra, Vic

Re: NRAA Queens

#21 Postby AlanF » Wed May 31, 2017 12:38 pm

jasmay wrote:The squadding at SARA was very well done...

How was it done Jason? Was there resquadding daily? Did they have catchup pauses between classes/grades? Was the scoring and check scoring shared equitably?

Tim N
Posts: 892
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:18 pm
Location: Branxton NSW

Re: NRAA Queens

#22 Postby Tim N » Wed May 31, 2017 2:03 pm

The field was divided into TR and F class
Each group started at the same time.
If TR shot first the scope shooters had to wait till TR was all done then we started.
F class was ordered in their different classes but no pause between once the shooting started.
I think it worked fairly well.
The markers were great.
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC

ShaneG
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:25 pm
Location: Cairns
Contact:

Re: NRAA Queens

#23 Postby ShaneG » Wed May 31, 2017 5:06 pm

That is the system the NRAA used in 2015 and I thought it worked reasonably well.
But they could have rotated down the board better within the groups
Last year 2016 it didn't work at all as a few whingers from 2015 got their way

plumbs7
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:32 am
Location: Dalby/ Tara Rifle Club

Re: NRAA Queens

#24 Postby plumbs7 » Wed May 31, 2017 6:54 pm

Tim N wrote:The field was divided into TR and F class
Each group started at the same time.
If TR shot first the scope shooters had to wait till TR was all done then we started.
F class was ordered in their different classes but no pause between once the shooting started.
I think it worked fairly well.
The markers were great.

From memory, this was how the 2015 Nats were and it worked out for me on the last range in fs A . As we all dropped a 4 exactly the same time .
I would have lost that range if wasn't for fair Squadding . Not to mention the extra time I had to sort out my scope issues . Otherwise I would have had to Quit , and nearly did!

But last years Squadding was , I'm sorry to say , a waste of time ! I would have rather just taken a draw like normal!

RDavies
Posts: 1924
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:23 pm
Location: Singleton NSW

Re: NRAA Queens

#25 Postby RDavies » Wed May 31, 2017 10:22 pm

ShaneG wrote:
Got an interesting query just come up as an aside to e targets?
What will happen if u are maybe last shooter on board at 300 and want a new centre?
They will have to have some pit duty personnel available?
On manuals at that stupid range for F Class every second competitor needs a new target centre to be able to see score lines? Will be a little easier due to no patches but will still represent a problem and competitor has leg image right to request new centre?,!!

Hang on, this is a good point. Will there be plenty of people in the pits at 300, changing centres??? Will 300y centres be changed out every few shooters as it needs to be on manual targets once the centres are quickly shot out?

budget
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: upper north south australia

Re: NRAA Queens

#26 Postby budget » Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:08 am

RDavies wrote:
ShaneG wrote:
Got an interesting query just come up as an aside to e targets?
What will happen if u are maybe last shooter on board at 300 and want a new centre?
They will have to have some pit duty personnel available?
On manuals at that stupid range for F Class every second competitor needs a new target centre to be able to see score lines? Will be a little easier due to no patches but will still represent a problem and competitor has leg image right to request new centre?,!!

Hang on, this is a good point. Will there be plenty of people in the pits at 300, changing centres??? Will 300y centres be changed out every few shooters as it needs to be on manual targets once the centres are quickly shot out?


you know im not sure you realize or not but there is a lot more to these events than just f class!

RDavies
Posts: 1924
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:23 pm
Location: Singleton NSW

Re: NRAA Queens

#27 Postby RDavies » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:28 am

budget wrote:
RDavies wrote:
ShaneG wrote:
Got an interesting query just come up as an aside to e targets?
What will happen if u are maybe last shooter on board at 300 and want a new centre?
They will have to have some pit duty personnel available?
On manuals at that stupid range for F Class every second competitor needs a new target centre to be able to see score lines? Will be a little easier due to no patches but will still represent a problem and competitor has leg image right to request new centre?,!!

Hang on, this is a good point. Will there be plenty of people in the pits at 300, changing centres??? Will 300y centres be changed out every few shooters as it needs to be on manual targets once the centres are quickly shot out?


you know im not sure you realize or not but there is a lot more to these events than just f class!

Yes, I think most are well aware that we are only half of the number there and that we do respect the TR shooters and would expect any changes to not adversely effect the TR shooters. BUT, we are also there and are bringing some new blood into the sport. These slight changes have no adverse effects on the TR shooters.

Matt P
Posts: 1294
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:22 pm

Re: NRAA Queens

#28 Postby Matt P » Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:58 am

budget wrote:
RDavies wrote:
ShaneG wrote:
Got an interesting query just come up as an aside to e targets?
What will happen if u are maybe last shooter on board at 300 and want a new centre?
They will have to have some pit duty personnel available?
On manuals at that stupid range for F Class every second competitor needs a new target centre to be able to see score lines? Will be a little easier due to no patches but will still represent a problem and competitor has leg image right to request new centre?,!!

Hang on, this is a good point. Will there be plenty of people in the pits at 300, changing centres??? Will 300y centres be changed out every few shooters as it needs to be on manual targets once the centres are quickly shot out?


you know im not sure you realize or not but there is a lot more to these events than just f class!


Yep, now take the F Class away and what do you have ?
At the SA Queens the entry would have been 39, F Class can't survive with out TR YET,but I know which one is growing :D
Regards
Matt P

scott/r
Posts: 560
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:22 pm
Location: far north brisbane

Re: NRAA Queens

#29 Postby scott/r » Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:32 pm

RDavies wrote:
budget wrote:
RDavies wrote:Hang on, this is a good point. Will there be plenty of people in the pits at 300, changing centres??? Will 300y centres be changed out every few shooters as it needs to be on manual targets once the centres are quickly shot out?


you know im not sure you realize or not but there is a lot more to these events than just f class!

Yes, I think most are well aware that we are only half of the number there and that we do respect the TR shooters and would expect any changes to not adversely effect the TR shooters. BUT, we are also there and are bringing some new blood into the sport. These slight changes have no adverse effects on the TR shooters.



Even as a t/r shooter, I've asked for a new center. It got a few looks, but looking through my spotting scope I couldn't see the v bull (6) ring, so how could the marker tell if it was a bull or a v bull. Granted that was paper and it gave me a chance to change a front ring I wasn't happy with.
Don't quote me on this , but I'm pretty sure that there will be runners in the butts to change centers and to deal with anything else that pops it's ugly head up. They have to change target faces after every stage anyway, so they may as stay there.

budget
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: upper north south australia

Re: NRAA Queens

#30 Postby budget » Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:24 am

Matt P wrote:
budget wrote:
RDavies wrote:Hang on, this is a good point. Will there be plenty of people in the pits at 300, changing centres??? Will 300y centres be changed out every few shooters as it needs to be on manual targets once the centres are quickly shot out?


you know im not sure you realize or not but there is a lot more to these events than just f class!


Yep, now take the F Class away and what do you have ?
At the SA Queens the entry would have been 39, F Class can't survive with out TR YET,but I know which one is growing :D
Regards
Matt P


now by your reply im not sure you quite understand my post so i will help you out,it has nothing to do with attendance figures but the willingness by some people to suggest that we just get rid of that silly range.
300 yds is an integral part of target rifle in both tradition and skill level and is still used in international and national level.
as i commented before when saying "lets just get rid of that silly range" their is other people to consider not just the f class contingent.
regards paul.


Return to “Events”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest