Easter At Glenrowan

[Guest]

wem (Wayne Mcfarlane )

Wayne,
On 23 March-- 3 weeks before the event at Glenrowan, I put a post on this forum entitled " Easter at Glenrowan II" advising FO shooters that the organizers were prepared to include FO. Then I asked the Question " who is going?
Well my friend that post is still on it's lonesome, there was not one single reply, not one.
I also stated that the organizers required a Min of 8 entries to pay for trophies.
There is no requirement in SSR'S for a Min number of entries in any discipline but common sense will tell you that you have to cover costs.

I did not, did not intend to. or indicate that I would, do a ring around of FO shooters.
I rang Joyce on the Monday prior and informed her that on the info that I had at that time, there would be no FO shooters attending

Paul

It was advertised on this site 3 weeks before the event You were no doubt notified of this (I know you were ). and It was called off for the reasons stated above, and you were one that said you was not going.
In keeping with Wangaratta policy the trophies for FO would have been of the same quality as for other disciplines.

The trophies for FS and FSB were the same i.e. each range and aggregate.

Alan,

Glenrowan was a great success without FO and they may well be able to do without you ( FO ) but it would still have been good to see FO represented, just to let people know that FO does exist.
How do you expect to increase your numbers when you don't show people what you are about?

The SA people were suitably impressed but at the same time dissapointed as they were FO shooters who would rather have shot FO than FS, non the less they had an enjoyable two days.

Barry Davies

[RAVEN]

Can I ask how many FO vic shooters were there???

[Guest]

Raven.

There were no Vic FO shooters. Wayne McFarlane from Bendigo Did turn up on Sat. thinking that FO was on, only to find out it was not, because no one had indicated their intentions to attend.
Because of the limited numbers of FO shooters in VIC, organizers simply have to have a committment well in advance from FO before it is viable.
I have seen posts on this site from FO shooters who say they are going to a particular PM and then don't turn up. They may have a very good reason for the mind change but that doesn't help the organizers.

The answer of course is to have more FO shooters, like FS. but it (FO ) just does not seem to be very popular.
There has to be a reason for this and I say again to the FO people ask a few questions and see if you can find the answers----- if you want to.

Barry Davies

[Matt P]

Barry
I've asked YOU this question and others concerning FO and never get an answer you seem to want to put the boot into FO at any chance why is this (please answer the question) ??

Matt P

[Guest]

Matt,

I have answered all your questions as I see it.
Why would I want to , as you say it, put the boot into FO at any chance?
I have absolutely no interest in FO other than to encourage them to take a more active interest in their own discipline.

Lets face it, in Vic at least FO is hardly a force and what I say to those who shoot it if you are serious about increasing your numbers get off your individual butts and find out why FO is not so popular, then having done that work toward changing a few things ( maybe ) to increase it's popularity---if you want to.

Now, if thats putting the boots in then I plead guilty

Barry Davies.

[Matt P]

Barry
Recently on another topic I asked you would you shoot FO if cost wasn't an issue and if not why?? All I really got was cost is an issue which didn't answer my question !! I have asked how does FO increases it's numbers and your responce is make the target easier. Do you really think thats all that is needed ???
I will ask the question again how do FO in general not just in Vic increase its numbers ???

Matt P

[Tony Q]

Forgive me for butting in to this … but one way could be to introduce a factory class or B class (that is any off the shelf or custom varmint gun)

It’s a question I get asked now and then .. the guy with his trusty 25-06 rem sendero or 243 Ruger looking for a place to live but in reality cannot compete against your outfits and is not eligible for FS.

The upside is numbers .. and some may see the virtues of a more FO orientated outfit in the future. Sometimes you have to offer more to get more.

Just a thought.

[AlanF]

...I also stated that the organizers required a Min of 8 entries to pay for trophies...

Barry,
I'm puzzled about where the figure of 8 came from. In my 2 or 3 years of shooting F-Open, I've shot at 11 Victorian OPMs. The largest field was 5 shooters. Warrnambool, Geelong, Bacchus Marsh, Lang Lang, Moe and Rosedale are all prepared to cater for small F-Open fields. I believe setting that figure is the main reason it didn't happen. Wayne and I would have been there otherwise, and if we had 3 from SA that would have been enough. And trophies shouldn't be put up as a reason for requiring bigger numbers. They can be adjusted to suit.
Alan

[Guest]

Alan,

Firstly, You never came to Castlemaine and we had 10 FO all Victorians, so they are out there.
The figure of 8 came from the organizers. and would have covered the cost of trophies.
Alan, I may have misunderstood, but are you trying to tell me that because a figure of 8 was stated as an entry required to cover cost of trophies, this is the reason nobody came?

Matt,
I think you had better read my post again.

I have asked the questions that you should have. I have asked those questions of people who DO NOT shoot FO. It's no good asking questions of people who shoot FO because you will get the answers you want. Ask the questions of those who do not shoot FO then you mighy get some answers, you might not like them but at least you will know.

Yes I think your targets are too difficult, you know that as we have been through that before. And I know that most FO shooters are happy with what you have. so be it. You cannot deny that your equipment is more expensive both to set up and to maintain at the peak required to compete successfully.
I would shoot FO if I thought I could be competitive with my 308, but I know that I am not and I am not about to spend a whole heap more dollars building new rifles so that I can be competitive.
Why do you think FS was introduced? I'll tell you.
It was introduced so that those who wanted to shoot F Class could do so with a Minimum of expense. and compete on an equal footing with all others of the same discipline.
Your targets are too small and your equipment too expensive to make your discipline attractive to the average shooter.
The cost of equipment is directly proportional to the size of targets.
Now you can call that FB mentality, possibles mentality,warm and fuzzy or whatever you like, but that is a fact, and I say again go ask some questions of Mr average and see what answers you get.---if you want to.

Barry Davies

[AlanF]

Firstly, You never came to Castlemaine and we had 10 FO all Victorians, so they are out there.

Barry, I did miss Castlemaine because it was the last weekend before 6 days away at the Canberra Queens and it didn't seem fair to my family. Anyway it sounds like you had all you needed with 10. Now, of those 10 I'd be interested to know how many you could call regular F-Open shooters - by that I mean shooting say 2 Saturdays a month. I'd suggest less than half of those 10 would be regular shooters.

The figure of 8 came from the organizers. and would have covered the cost of trophies.
Alan, I may have misunderstood, but are you trying to tell me that because a figure of 8 was stated as an entry required to cover cost of trophies, this is the reason nobody came?

I think that was the main reason - another was that it was only offered as an afterthought.

I'm not interested in continuing this as its just becoming a point-scoring exercise. The main thing is to learn from it. I think we probably have enough OPMs offering F-Open for the moment. The main thing we need to fix is numbers of shooters.

BTW I don't believe it is the F-Open rules which are holding it back - they have the same rules in North Queensland and it is very popular there. IMHO its got more to do with people and circumstances in the various states when F-Class was in its infancy. Not that there's anything to be gained from trying to blame anyone - we're better off looking forward. I'll open a new topic in the F-Open Rules forum soon to try to get some ideas.

Alan

[VickiMcc]

Barry , Open rifles dont cost any more to set up than anything else. It is all about tuning the rifle to achieve maximum accuracy. I believe that there a a few Tuning devices out there in Std land, so a few dedicated competitors obviously are trying the samething , just with a std rifle.
As far as too costly to maintain, what a load. Most people keep their barrels way too long past the use by date, shooting at a smaller target certainly makes one look closer at the performance of the rifle, cause its all about achieving the max score.
I guess you nailed it in one by saying that the Open target is too hard for Mr Average. Most competitors who shoot Std seem too afraid to admit this. So in reality its not about spending money on equipment, rather, afraid of the target.

Paul

[Tony Q]

I can tell you that in SA where both FS and FO shoot on Championship targets this issue of the target being more difficult is not the reason we don’t all shoot FO.

Amongst the FS shooters here there is a sense of evenness in the equipment / calibers and as such competition between us is level without having to re define the wheel or getting bogged down it the caliber hunt.

Its all about simplicity .. FS is a simple discipline by comparison to the experimental F open class. We need ‘both’ but ‘both’ don’t mix together but they do reinforce each other.

[Guest]

Paul,

How often do you change your barrel? Mine just seem to keep going, maintaining accuracy way past 4000 rds, what about yours?
I don,t believe Mr average is afraid of the FO target, thats rather a childish statement.

Why does FB have a large following when ISSF does not? My guess it's something to do with the difficulty and the cost involved.

Why does FS have a large following and FO do not?
All I am saying is that it could have something to do with the difficulty and the cost and if FO is truly concerned about the lack of numbers then maybe a little investigation into the possible causes would do no harm.
Now is the time, while the rules are being looked at.

Barry Davies

[Tony Q]

I forgot to mention cost ..

As i have said befor if Mel and I were shooting open over the last 2 1/2 years we would be $2500 out of pocket by now. As barry said .. Std rifles or barrels just keep going giving even the most dedicated shooter 3 years of use rather than 10 months.

And what does this extra cost give you .. a higher score on a tighter target. At the end of the day what is the difference between a 100 and a 60 apart from the fact that one is a 1/2 min group and the other a 1 min group.

[Guest]

Oh, almost forgot.

Who's going to bacchus marsh next weekend?

Barry Davies