Commonwealth Games

[actionclear]

Yes, Alan, nice guys, at least we can claim it as Australasian win....

[Lynn Otto]

...even your local prize meeting is dependent on the accuracy of the markers. This is usually out of sight, out of mind to the shooters.

Trust me Peter it may be out of sight but it sure is not out of mind for this shooter. It was only tonight that I commented to Trev that shooting must be the only sport where your result can very much be dependent on a second person over whom you have no control. A person who can make or break you without a second thought for the consequences.

I half jokingly suggested there should be a marker and a check marker just like we do for scoring. Can't see it happening though.

[actionclear]

and agree, it will be a bonus for the sport, putting it in the spot light in New Zealand.

As I said on my facebook page last night. I am torn. I am a Kiwi, one of the guys is from a neighbouring town back home. Yet I shoot with the Aussies...

Happy and sad at the same time.

[Lynn Otto]

Yes, Alan, nice guys, at least we can claim it as Australasian win....

Hell, let's just annexe New Zealand to Australia, most of them live here anyway, then it wouldn't matter, it could still be our gold medal.

Edit: PS just saw your post Linda, see we should all be one happy family.

[actionclear]

[quote="Lynn Otto"

I half jokingly suggested there should be a marker and a check marker just like we do for scoring. Can't see it happening though. [/quote]

There does need to be some way of checking for a shot on an electronic target. I am not sure how this will be achieved.

At the WA Queens there were alot of misses. I have never seen so many called. Some were lucky, and the misses were sighters. Some not so lucky, and it cost them dearly. Unfortunately there is currently no come back for the shooter when the target fails to register. The current WA match committee believes the computer system is failsafe.


Computer says....NO!

[AlanF]

Hell, let's just annexe New Zealand to Australia

Apparently, that almost did happen back in the early 1800s . Some big NSW sheep farmer wanted NZ for a ram paddock .

But heck, we've got Russell Crowe, Rebecca Gibney, Fred Hollows etc. may as well have Mike Collings and John Snowden too .

[Peter Hulett]

Linda,
Believe me, the Kongsberg targets can and do fail to record a shot at times. We at Geelong have as much experience with them as Perth has and we are aware of their foibles. In our experience these failures are due to inadequate maintenance. We service our targets every 2000 rounds and will always make sure that a full service is done before any major shoot. If a target records a miss it is not accepted as a miss until we test the target.

Seems to be commonsense to us.

[actionclear]

How do you test the target? Do you just go back to the trailer and say, nope it's all green, your loss?


The WA Targets were not in the best state. There were large holes in the rubber in the centres. (Clearly seen by those with scopes) My guess is these haven't been replaced since the targets were installed. (My opinion only)

The question about the rubber was asked, and we were told it made no differance to the senors registering the shots.

One hopes WARA takes note at their next meeting. Otherwise SARA Queens might be getting quite a turn out.

[johnk]

may as well have Mike Collings and John Snowden too.

Hey, the Collings have come to so many Belmont Queens that Mike & Di have already been granted resident status.

[Peter Hulett]

Linda,
The targets come with a rubber circle glued to the front of the target that is the aiming mark. It has no effect on the working of the target. In fact we have removed ours and replaced them with normal paper aiming marks and centres with super Vs so our F-class shooters can see the rings. This assists them so I am told. Behind the face of the target is the rubber which establishes the integrity of acoustic chamber and that needs to be rotated regularly as it gets shot out. I can't comment on how good or bad WARA's maintenance program is.

In our experience, when a target malfunctions and does not register a shot it will continue to error. We test the target by firing a series of shots on it to see if we can duplicate the error. If after a series of 5 or so shots we have recorded no errors then the miss is confirmed. As I said this happened to us a few times early on but since we established a proper maintenance schedule we have very few non-registrations and those that we do have are related to bullet damage on the target. Then it doesn't work at all! There are also various diagnostics that can be carried out on a suspect target but usually we just pull them down and refurbish them.
The only unexplained misses that I have had since I started shooting have been on manually marked targets.

[actionclear]

Your follow up on missed shots is much more through. Here if you get a miss, the trailer is checked for a green light. If if is green, you get another shot on the target. If that shot registers, then you wear the miss, and accept the score from the shot fired as well.

The amount of "misses" that I alone witnessed must have been in double figures over the weekend. We can't all have dodgy ammo...Can we?

It may be the rubber on the back that was under disscussion. The club asking the questions uses electronics. I might have to phone a friend on that one. I have only used them 3 times.


I have another question about ETargets. I would like to know how another club would handle what happened to me. Unsure if I should put it here, but then it may be a learning experiance for everyone?

[Chopper]

WHY do we need ET targets ????

[Peter Hulett]

Chopper,
Three reasons why we need e-targets are evident from the Geelong Rifle Club experience.
1. We have a number of older shooters who would have given up the game if they had to mark.
2. Most of our shooters are young people who have come in since we introduced electronics. They all shoot f-class and they love the electronics. It is a great membership creator.
3. Target maintenance is reduced by about 2/3rds. We are all busy and it gets harder and harder to arrange working bees for target maintenance.

[Woody_rod]

I believe there is little doubt that the future of rifle shooting at regional and national level will be E targets. I have to agree with the reservations brought forward by Alan that although the technology has been around for a long time, it still is not 100% reliable.

So far, this is the only thing I could bring as a negative about the E targets. I do like the idea of having a live display etc, it makes shooting our game a nicer experience 99.99% of the time. I just wonder how we can get that last bit, or have rules or systems in place in order to allow for the fact that the targets are known not to be 100% accurate.

I know for a fact that I lost at least one shot (in FO) on a target, which was absolutely in the middle of the correct target. The guy that runs the targets in WA was there. I saw the bullet flight and called the shot a 6 just missing the X ring at 9 oclock. No shot came up. I did not get another shot, as they said there was nothing wrong with the target. I said where the shot went, then fired again, the shot going exactly where I called it. I asked where my last shot was, they said I must have missed the target...what a joke.

The shooter cannot be blamed for the target reliability or otherwise. There should be a second system running in parallel somehow to reduce the lost shot problem. How this can happen I don't know, but the thinking that the target is right and the shooter is wrong needs to be changed ASAP.

[Woody_rod]

Linda,
....As I said this happened to us a few times early on but since we established a proper maintenance schedule we have very few non-registrations and those that we do have are related to bullet damage on the target. Then it doesn't work at all!....

Peter,

Just taking this up as a point in itself, this is certainly the case with the targets at the WARA Queens. The centers were non-existent on most, due to the pounding they were taking. I also know for a fact that the centers had big holes in them, which could clearly be seen through my modest 24 power Weaver scope. We thought at the time that the target being an acoustic apparatus, this must not be ideal for the thing to work correctly.

Maybe the rubber mat thing can be made in two sections, an inner and outer ring that can mean the inner can be changed more frequently, to save money, which is fair enough. We use the same principle in our local club with cardboard target faces with separate centers that can be changed easily. This was adopted by the system in place at the Belmont range, Brisbane.

I believe this is probably the one thing that can be looked at and resolved easily. The loss of shots is simply unacceptable.