F Class Shooting at NRAA Queens - October 2010

[bobped]

The NRAA Queens in October 2010 (this year) and in October 2011 are being held under ICFRA Rules. This is because of the World Championships being held in 2011.

The NRAA has just decided that F Class Shooting at these events will be conducted under Australian Standard Shooting Rules (SSR's). This is both F Open and Standard. If F Standard shot under ICFRA F Class rules it would be the F/TR rules, which only allows bipods and restricts the weight to 8.25 KG, including the bipod. This would probably cut out 70% of F Standard shooters. In ICFRA F/TR, calibers are restricted to .308" and .223" but any weight projectile is allowed, plus no trigger weight as long as it is safe.

There is a notice on the NRAA Web site here:-

http://www.nraa.com.au/news/F-class_2010natlchamps.html

This is a copy of the notice:-

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT FOR F CLASS SHOOTERS COMPETING AT THE NRAA CHAMPIONSHIPS BRISBANE IN OCTOBER 2010

As promulgated the NRAA Championships in October this year will be shot under ICFRA Rules, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF F CLASS.

Due to the ICFRA rules not catering for F Class as we compete here in Australia - both F Class Standard and F Class Open will be conducted under Australian Standard Shooting Rules (SSR's) as amended and in force at the time.

As previously announced Target Rifle competitions for the championships will be conducted under ICFRA rules.

John Fitzgerald
NRAA Director - Rules Portfolio.

------------
The NRAA Chairman - John Fitzgerald had this potential problem pointed out to him during the Sydney Queens. The NRAA have in this case reacted very quickly and properly.

In Addition:- The following advice has been given to me by Bruce Scott, NRAA Competitions Director.

F Standard and F Open will be fully integrated with TR Shooters.
There will be Super V's on all targets plus the marking and scoring will be ICFRA Style as per the way it was done very successfully at the QRA Queens and recently at the NSW Queens.
F Standard and F Open will be scored with 6.1's.
There will be only one Grade in F Standard.

Cheers to all - see you in Brisbane
Bob Pedersen

[John E]

NRAA, John Fitzgerald & Co, have been supportive of Aussie F Class right from the inception of the Rules Committees and the ensuing F Class SSRs. However, in this instance, I think they should have gone the extra step and included F Std B Grade in this competition.
I believe that the national gradings are available, using the same system that the States are using, so why not implement it for this competition? I'm sure that it would result in more entries.

John

[Barry Davies]

Quite so John.
I can remember the NRAA chairman in his column ( ATR ) making the statement that F Class grading will be addressed " in the short term ---".
That was in the latter half of 2009.
Grading at NRAA level has still NOT been introduced--12months later, even though grading is being used at most state Queens and practically all prize meetings throughout NSW, VIC and TAS.--thanks only to several devoted individuals who DO care about F Class and it's future.
Barry Davies

[johnk]

I believe that one of the many issues that NRAA face is that promoters omit (refuse, don't bother to collect or supply) UINs with match results, which might reasonably leave NRAA with concerns about the reliability of data collected, or alternatively the resources to reasonably compile gradings. As a former TR club grading officer, I well recall the hot shots would consistently fail to supply me with their prize shoot results lest their grading suffered. As a consequence, the calculations I produced weren't kosher until I spent an unreasonable amount of time following up their skulduggery.

In regard to grading per se, I have a deal of admiration for the conscientious way Victoria has always managed its grading obligations at every level - nevertheless a distinctly uncommon occurrence.

[bruce moulds]

does anyone know how icfra scores fclass.
this would be a good direction for us to go in the interests of world uniformity.
bruce moulds.

[Barry Davies]

Bruce.

ICFRA scoring for F Class is same as TR ie Centre = V Bull =5 inner = 4 etc
F Class use same target as TR but the V for TR = the bull for F Class ( 5 ) the bull for TR = the 4 for F Class etc.
A further ring at half the TR "V " diameter is introduced for F Class which becomes the F Class ' V "
So basically the targets for TR and F Class are the same except an extra ring is introduced for F Class and all other rings are down graded by one piont.
To answer your question scoring is V, 5, 4, 3, etc but rings have value of one point less than for TR.
One target --rings have different values depending upon discipline---confusing. No problem if all F Class are squadded on the one target, but our system is better.
Barry Davies

[Eicharsto]

Pardon my ignorance, but can any licensed shooter enter the Queens?

I have only been shooting for about 3 months and would love to enter and see how the top guys go about their business, but I dont know if I need to have a grading?

Hope the question makes sense?

eicarsto

[Lynn Otto]

Pardon my ignorance, but can any licensed shooter enter the Queens?
eicarsto

Provided you are a club member and have been issued a registration card from your relevant NRAA affiliated state body then yes you can enter.

[AlanF]

The NRAA Queens in October 2010 (this year) and in October 2011 are being held under ICFRA Rules. This is because of the World Championships being held in 2011.

The NRAA has just decided that F Class Shooting at these events will be conducted under Australian Standard Shooting Rules (SSR's)...

I think this confirms my earlier fears that the NRAA has become obsessed with this event at the expense of other important matters, including keeping the SSRs up to date. The announcement on the website is entitled "Important Notice for F-Class Shooters". What a joke. This event is primarily for TR, i.e. the rehearsal in 2011 then the World Championships in 2012. F-Class is only allowed to participate in the Queens as I understand it.

BTW if they are saying that F-Open will shoot on ICFRA targets, that is not in accordance with the current version of the SSRs.

Alan

[bruce moulds]

why can't we as fclass shooters, through our state bodies, and in conjunction with the nraa work towards being icfra compatible by the internationals?
a good place to start would be to think of ways to do it instead of reasons not to.
bruce moulds.

[Lynn Otto]

Bruce,

If F Standard shot under ICFRA F Class rules it would be the F/TR rules, which only allows bipods and restricts the weight to 8.25 KG, including the bipod. This would probably cut out 70% of F Standard shooters. In ICFRA F/TR, calibers are restricted to .308" and .223" but any weight projectile is allowed,

These look like several good reasons to not go down this track. Seriously how many of us are likely to compete in these competitions, even if they are held here, why mess up a system that is working well just to 'go international'. The rest of the world probably don't care about how we do it, but I suspect most of us are happy the way things are.

Lynn

[Barry Davies]

Let those with international aspirations comply with ICFRA and leave the rest of us as we are.
A set of rules were developed to suit this country and I believe most were generally happy with those rules. These rules were in place before ICFRA came up with their's, which were basically to suit what existed in the USA and Canada--don't remember ICFRA taking into account what equipment I, along with many others in Aus. already had.
Leave it be, we are doing OK, with numbers shooting FS increasing by the week, which to me says we have got it pretty right.
Barry

[bobped]

Further to what Barry has just said, I believe there is a case to take to the ICFRA Committee that the F/TR ICFRA Rules should be changed to be the same as the Australian F Standard Rules.

The development of F Class in Australia has been one of the great success stories in shooting over the last few years. F Class shooters in Australia probably outnumber others in the world, so why not?

It may well be a long hard road but could be achievable in the long run.

Cheers
Bob Pedersen

[Razer]

My sentiments entirely Bob, I was going to post along the lines that you have put so well after I read Barry's comment on Wednesday "but our system is better".YES, We DO HAVE THE BEST SYSTEM " All three disciplines shooting together on the one target. It will only get getter Ray.

[Barry Davies]

Good thoughts Bob but would'nt like your chances. Who do you think would push this barrow to the ICFRA committee?---not our NRAA I betcha.
Like what was said in an earlier post, we are still waiting for a much needed national grading system for F Class to be introduced, not to mention the out of date system used in TR which has been on the agenda for at least 10 years--yes mate it would be a L O N G haul.
I think our efforts would be more beneficial directed toward preserving what we have.
Maybe it's time to form that National F Class association that's being mooted at the moment in order to do just that--state associations really have very little clout, and tend to push their own agenda anyway, instead of looking at the overall picture.
Barry