Congratulations Alan on a superb job in trying conditions. Congratulations also to all the other competitors, I'm sure its been a tiring few days in the not so friendly weather conditions.
Lynn
QRA Queens Blog
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RAVEN
- Posts: 1978
- Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:37 pm
- Location: Adelaide South Australia (CTV)
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Paul Janzso
- Posts: 573
- Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:10 pm
- Location: Mackay QLD
QLD Queens
Congratulations Alan for your win , it sounded by your posts to be a very trying competition.
Well done to the rest of the field for keeping Alan honest.
Cheers
Paul
Well done to the rest of the field for keeping Alan honest.
Cheers
Paul
Time's a wasted wot's not spent shooti'n BARNARD 300WSM's
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RDavies
- Posts: 2323
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:23 pm
- Location: Singleton NSW
No commiserations meeded Raven. I think I shot my best ever, and had a good time. I started out well with my Dasher which went realy well, but couldnt catch up to Alans top class 900 and 1000yd shoots. My hummer barrel is not humming as it used to, but as Alan says, it is part of the game to have your gear in order, but even the worlds best gun couldnt shoot through the conditions we had.
One thing I did find out is that shooting 4 ranges a day, with only a short break for lunch in difficult conditions is mentaly taxing. I,m starting to realise that the days of drinking, socializing and reloading through the night, then shooting a hard to shoot gun all day, are fading away if you want to shoot your best. I think I burnt up all my energy and concentration walking around the range trying to catch up with the other F Open shooters.
With the top F Open scores so far ahead of F std scores , it might still entice a few F std shooters to have a go at F Open. I know a few people came and asked me advice (scary) about building up a F Open rifle and it sounds like next year, the numbers could be quite a bit higher in open class.
Overall it was a top shoot, great to catch up with all the usualy suspects again. Another very close finish with a Cameron keeping us both worried all the way, but also a lot of other shooters up there winning a few ranges, so the medals got spread around, with no one totaly dominating.
In F std, Bruce Kneebone had another cracker Queens, with a score of 560, ahead of Grant Groves on 555.
One thing I did find out is that shooting 4 ranges a day, with only a short break for lunch in difficult conditions is mentaly taxing. I,m starting to realise that the days of drinking, socializing and reloading through the night, then shooting a hard to shoot gun all day, are fading away if you want to shoot your best. I think I burnt up all my energy and concentration walking around the range trying to catch up with the other F Open shooters.
With the top F Open scores so far ahead of F std scores , it might still entice a few F std shooters to have a go at F Open. I know a few people came and asked me advice (scary) about building up a F Open rifle and it sounds like next year, the numbers could be quite a bit higher in open class.
Overall it was a top shoot, great to catch up with all the usualy suspects again. Another very close finish with a Cameron keeping us both worried all the way, but also a lot of other shooters up there winning a few ranges, so the medals got spread around, with no one totaly dominating.
In F std, Bruce Kneebone had another cracker Queens, with a score of 560, ahead of Grant Groves on 555.
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bartman007
- Posts: 921
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:06 pm
- Location: Gippsland
Victorian's victorious!!!
Great win Alan. 
Shooting at the Rosedale range has paid off, as you need to know how to read the wind! Well done.
Good to see that the Open scores were about 10 to 20 points above that of Standard Class, which does tend to highlight some benefit from different calibres. None the less, you still have to read wind!
Shooting at the Rosedale range has paid off, as you need to know how to read the wind! Well done.
Good to see that the Open scores were about 10 to 20 points above that of Standard Class, which does tend to highlight some benefit from different calibres. None the less, you still have to read wind!
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Cameron Mc
- Posts: 1089
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:55 am
- Location: Darling Downs SE Qld
RDavies wrote:One thing I did find out is that shooting 4 ranges a day, with only a short break for lunch in difficult conditions is mentaly taxing. I,m starting to realise that the days of drinking, socializing and reloading through the night, then shooting a hard to shoot gun all day, are fading away if you want to shoot your best. I think I burnt up all my energy and concentration walking around the range trying to catch up with the other F Open shooters. .
Well deserved win Alan. It was hard at 1000yds and your hit there was impressive.
Rod, you have finally realised that you too are involved with the aging proccess!! Remember last year you went fox shooting one night during the Queens, that involved a 6 hr round trip, then shot Queens next day.
Another good Queens....beats working.
Cameron
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AlanF
- Posts: 7501
- Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:22 pm
- Location: Maffra, Vic
Its Wednesday morning and I finally got home. Came through some pretty hairy tracks down the western side of Qld and NSW. However if I'd got lost and perished in the wilderness, be assured that I would have died happy 
! I put a lot of effort into preparing for Queens shoots, and when it all pays off, its very satisfying.
I said above that having you gear sorted is part of the game, but I often think it would be better if all rifles were equally accurate, then it would be a pure test of shooting skills. Nothing worse than getting a swag of 6 or 12 o'clock shots in the 5 ring.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned in the post mortem so far is calibres. I didn't notice any real trend. There was a good representation of 6mm, 6.5mm and 7mm in various chamberings, and all calibres did well at various times. Which just goes to show that you can't really go wrong with the one in the middle
.
The next Queens is NSW which unfortunately I won't get to this year. Rod has cleaned up there 2 years in a row, last year in a canter, so before he gets his next hummer, there's an opportunity for someone else !
Alan
! I put a lot of effort into preparing for Queens shoots, and when it all pays off, its very satisfying.
I said above that having you gear sorted is part of the game, but I often think it would be better if all rifles were equally accurate, then it would be a pure test of shooting skills. Nothing worse than getting a swag of 6 or 12 o'clock shots in the 5 ring.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned in the post mortem so far is calibres. I didn't notice any real trend. There was a good representation of 6mm, 6.5mm and 7mm in various chamberings, and all calibres did well at various times. Which just goes to show that you can't really go wrong with the one in the middle
.
The next Queens is NSW which unfortunately I won't get to this year. Rod has cleaned up there 2 years in a row, last year in a canter, so before he gets his next hummer, there's an opportunity for someone else
!
Alan
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bruce moulds
- Posts: 2900
- Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm
alan,
it is becoming increasingly obvious that most decently put together rifles can comfortably comfortably hold x ring elevation or better.
the secret is to produce consistently good ammo for the job.
your comments re elevation certainly reflect the fact that high agging accuracy is far more important for a win on the super v target than it was on the champ target. if you can't hold minute of angle you could well be dead in the water.
people used to laugh when statements were made re increased accuracy requirements for the super v, but they are now beginning to see that it is true.
before you could win with a bigger group caused by a flier high or low. now , as more shooters are forced to develop better ammo, those who don't drop shots will win.
bruce moulds.
it is becoming increasingly obvious that most decently put together rifles can comfortably comfortably hold x ring elevation or better.
the secret is to produce consistently good ammo for the job.
your comments re elevation certainly reflect the fact that high agging accuracy is far more important for a win on the super v target than it was on the champ target. if you can't hold minute of angle you could well be dead in the water.
people used to laugh when statements were made re increased accuracy requirements for the super v, but they are now beginning to see that it is true.
before you could win with a bigger group caused by a flier high or low. now , as more shooters are forced to develop better ammo, those who don't drop shots will win.
bruce moulds.
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Cameron Mc
- Posts: 1089
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:55 am
- Location: Darling Downs SE Qld
Belated congratulations to James Corbett on another Queens win. Comes after a second placing at Bisley...no mean feat.
No doubt these results will help with the Commonwealth Games.
Well done!!
Cameron
No doubt these results will help with the Commonwealth Games.
Well done!!
Cameron
Last edited by Cameron Mc on Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Deano 29
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:09 pm
- Location: Goulburn
Congratulations to all those who competed, and the winners...as a new shooter waiting for my license and rifle to be built, reading these stories gets the heart going and the stomach aching. I look forward to meeting you all and becoming a part of one of the most close knit communities within any sport anywhere. Once again congrats guys.
Deano
Deano
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John T
- Posts: 241
- Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:42 pm
- Location: Brisbane
QLD QUEENS
Hello all.
Congratulations to the placegetters in F Open, Alan, Rod, Cameron, Ken and Andrew and also to the ladies, Julie and Annie who were very close.
I would like to comment on 3 issues.
Target Sharing.
I was pleasantly surprised not to hear any grumbling about muzzle blast, shooting too quickly, scoring or too slow moving gear off the firing point. It all went smoothly with common sense and goodwill prevailing.
Whilst I was also dissapointed in not catching up (I did not see Andrew or Annie at all), I believe it was a diplomatic win for mutual recognition between FC and TR.
Number of Sighters.
2 sighters for FO is done and dusted, thank goodness.
Value of the Super V.
The QRA the all too easy option of 6.1, despite my urging that it be scored 7. I will continue my campaign in QLD and hope you all will do so in your respective States and Territories.
We all know that there is a significantly different mental approach to shooting 6.1 matches to shooting 7 matches.
Without any disrespect to you, Alan (no doubt you would have had that different approach), if the Super had been scored as 7, there would have been 3 significant changes to the results:-
1. Rod 605
2. Alan 597
8. Andrew 576
Regards,
John Tracey.
25.08.10
Congratulations to the placegetters in F Open, Alan, Rod, Cameron, Ken and Andrew and also to the ladies, Julie and Annie who were very close.
I would like to comment on 3 issues.
Target Sharing.
I was pleasantly surprised not to hear any grumbling about muzzle blast, shooting too quickly, scoring or too slow moving gear off the firing point. It all went smoothly with common sense and goodwill prevailing.
Whilst I was also dissapointed in not catching up (I did not see Andrew or Annie at all), I believe it was a diplomatic win for mutual recognition between FC and TR.
Number of Sighters.
2 sighters for FO is done and dusted, thank goodness.
Value of the Super V.
The QRA the all too easy option of 6.1, despite my urging that it be scored 7. I will continue my campaign in QLD and hope you all will do so in your respective States and Territories.
We all know that there is a significantly different mental approach to shooting 6.1 matches to shooting 7 matches.
Without any disrespect to you, Alan (no doubt you would have had that different approach), if the Super had been scored as 7, there would have been 3 significant changes to the results:-
1. Rod 605
2. Alan 597
8. Andrew 576
Regards,
John Tracey.
25.08.10
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AlanF
- Posts: 7501
- Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:22 pm
- Location: Maffra, Vic
John,
I have argued for scoring out of 7 myself, mainly for the reason that it gives F-Open equipment a better opportunity to show its superiority, particularly at the shorts. But I also think there is one important advantage of 6.1 scoring, and that is the scorers does not need to ask a scope shooter whether they are Standard or Open - the presence of scope is all that's required to know that it is 6.1 scoring.
Contrary to what Bruce Moulds said above, I think the 6.1 scoring relaxes the need for tack-driving rifles which were required for the previous open target. I flirted with a 6 Dasher for a couple of years for that reason, but have now abandoned that idea partly because it appears that 6.1 scoring is here to stay (Tassie, Vic and Qld Queens). In fact I have 7mm coming!
I think the 7 scoring (as in the ACT Queens) puts the emphasis very much on equipment accuracy, again particularly at the shorts (the ICFRA LR Super V is actually bigger than the old open target 10 ring). Perhaps that's what F-Open should be - but I think the simplicity of scoring 6.1 for all scoped rifles seems to be favoured by most Queens orghanisers (and in the US and UK I might add). I believe SA will be doing something similar (10.1?).
Alan
I have argued for scoring out of 7 myself, mainly for the reason that it gives F-Open equipment a better opportunity to show its superiority, particularly at the shorts. But I also think there is one important advantage of 6.1 scoring, and that is the scorers does not need to ask a scope shooter whether they are Standard or Open - the presence of scope is all that's required to know that it is 6.1 scoring.
Contrary to what Bruce Moulds said above, I think the 6.1 scoring relaxes the need for tack-driving rifles which were required for the previous open target. I flirted with a 6 Dasher for a couple of years for that reason, but have now abandoned that idea partly because it appears that 6.1 scoring is here to stay (Tassie, Vic and Qld Queens). In fact I have 7mm coming!
I think the 7 scoring (as in the ACT Queens) puts the emphasis very much on equipment accuracy, again particularly at the shorts (the ICFRA LR Super V is actually bigger than the old open target 10 ring). Perhaps that's what F-Open should be - but I think the simplicity of scoring 6.1 for all scoped rifles seems to be favoured by most Queens orghanisers (and in the US and UK I might add). I believe SA will be doing something similar (10.1?).
Alan
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RAVEN
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- Location: Adelaide South Australia (CTV)
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bruce moulds
- Posts: 2900
- Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm
john t & alan f,
for this discussion i am going to refer to the super v target scored out of 60.10 for 10 to count.
john, you made the point thatrod would have beaten alan, relative scores being 605 and 597, with the super v scoring 1 extra point.
using the super v as a countout alan won.
the reason alan won under this system is that he had less bad shots.
rod would have won under the other system because he had more better shots.
the basis of rifle accuracy is not to have bad shots, and to do this, we need a definition of what a bad shot is.
the super v target defines this as any shot outside 1moa (generally). this is a pretty hard criterion to achieve regularly.
once this standard is achieved,(60) better shots (v or x) are rewarded to decide a winner. if 2 shooters achieve a same score less than 60 the same applies. but always, the shooter with the greater number of bad shots loses.
rifle accuracy demands that bad shots are eliminated from the gun, ammo, shooter equation.in alan's case he eliminated more than rod, and therefore was a better shot.
the superv puts the line in the sand at 1moa. benchrest puts it at 1 bullet hole. a digger in new guinea put it at minute of jap. anyting worse than this and it will come back and bite you.
especially if you got the wind right and drop a point due to elevation.
this is why i believe that the super v target requires more accuracy to win.
a certain ammount of bad shots can be sustained and still win with super v given an extra point, as proven by rods score. but alan had less bad shots. he should have, and did, win.
bruce moulds.
for this discussion i am going to refer to the super v target scored out of 60.10 for 10 to count.
john, you made the point thatrod would have beaten alan, relative scores being 605 and 597, with the super v scoring 1 extra point.
using the super v as a countout alan won.
the reason alan won under this system is that he had less bad shots.
rod would have won under the other system because he had more better shots.
the basis of rifle accuracy is not to have bad shots, and to do this, we need a definition of what a bad shot is.
the super v target defines this as any shot outside 1moa (generally). this is a pretty hard criterion to achieve regularly.
once this standard is achieved,(60) better shots (v or x) are rewarded to decide a winner. if 2 shooters achieve a same score less than 60 the same applies. but always, the shooter with the greater number of bad shots loses.
rifle accuracy demands that bad shots are eliminated from the gun, ammo, shooter equation.in alan's case he eliminated more than rod, and therefore was a better shot.
the superv puts the line in the sand at 1moa. benchrest puts it at 1 bullet hole. a digger in new guinea put it at minute of jap. anyting worse than this and it will come back and bite you.
especially if you got the wind right and drop a point due to elevation.
this is why i believe that the super v target requires more accuracy to win.
a certain ammount of bad shots can be sustained and still win with super v given an extra point, as proven by rods score. but alan had less bad shots. he should have, and did, win.
bruce moulds.
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bruce moulds
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- Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm
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