Building an F-class Stock - Ready to trial

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DenisA
Posts: 1430
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:00 pm
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD

Building an F-class Stock - Ready to trial

#1 Postby DenisA » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:12 am

Hi All,

I've been building a stock on and off for a while now. I've just glued in the Whidden V block.
I'm taking it to the range this Saturday to trial run it before I finish shaping it.

So far, it weighs in at 8.1 kg's. It has a slight offset low profile forend, bag riders and a 4-way adjustable butt. I will be adding weight.

If it shoots well and I finish it with out any damage, I'll stain it. If I damage it and need to fill areas, I'll paint it........... Ferrari red!

Being my first stock I've built, I didn't want to use any special/expensive timbers. This was a free piece of Spotted Gum (stair I think).

Can't wait to see how it shoots.

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Quick
Posts: 924
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:09 pm
Location: Yanchep, Western Australia
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#2 Postby Quick » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:19 am

Denis,

Did you do anything to stiffen the forend? That looks really good though. I'm a massive fan of low rider stocks. I think the perform better and track well.
Shaun aka 'Quick'
Yanchep, Western Australia

308 Win F/TR & F-S
7mm F-Open Shooter.

Norm
Posts: 837
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:21 pm
Location: Gippsland, Victoria

#3 Postby Norm » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:30 am

Denis,
That looks like it will turn out very nice. Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

DenisA
Posts: 1430
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:00 pm
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD

#4 Postby DenisA » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:44 am

Quick wrote:Denis,

Did you do anything to stiffen the forend? That looks really good though. I'm a massive fan of low rider stocks. I think the perform better and track well.


G'day Shaun, cheers.

The forend's very sturdy. I left as much material in the sides as I could to keep some rigidity. I figured if PR&T could do it with their F-class Lowboy then I'd give it a go.
If there's going to be a problem with flex, I think it will be under the action. In hindsight I should have left more meat there. Although its full of V block and Devcon, proportionally, there's not a lot of timber there by the time it was relieved. I originally set it up with a simple action inlet and pillars with intention of Devcon bedding. I feel it was much more solid prior to the V-block relief.
Its still really solid, but I'm anxious about how it might perform under 300wsm recoil.

If it doesn't perform well, I'll put an order in for a McMillan F-class.

I wish I could get a PR&T lowboy, but the last I heard, they won't export.

Cheers Norm.

AlanF
Posts: 6806
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:22 pm
Location: Maffra, Vic

#5 Postby AlanF » Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:00 am

Denis.

Not being one to put a high emphasis on styling, the shape of that stock even has me admiring it. I'm now fan of the low rider fore-end - in my experience better behaved. And the recess under the fore-end will prevent rolling when the front bag goes convex. Well done.

Alan

bartman007
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Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:06 pm
Location: Gippsland

Gunmetal grey

#6 Postby bartman007 » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:15 pm

Alan,

I gather you'd be leaning toward a shade of Gunmetal Grey :P

Personally I'd go with Yellow 8)

Brad Y
Posts: 2018
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:21 pm

#7 Postby Brad Y » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:30 pm

Beautiful looking stock. When you get to finishing it, take a couple of mm off the bag rider rails and epoxy on some polished ally strips. I have a stock very similar and the ally slides beautifully on the bags.

DenisA
Posts: 1430
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:00 pm
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD

#8 Postby DenisA » Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:51 pm

Thanks for the comments guys. I'm going to video the shoot so I can compare the way it rides and recoils with my current stock.
I'm not expecting that the load will behave the same way so the score won't mean much. I suspect that different bedding systems between stocks will result in different action/barrel harmonics.

The main things I'll be looking at tomorrow are its function, behaviour and comfort. Tweaking the load will come later if it needs.

Gord
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:00 pm

Nice stock

#9 Postby Gord » Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:39 am

It appears you have your design well thought out and executed.
FWIW in my experience in "tuning" stock design and performance,
a couple of video cameras can be a great aid.
I use 2 cameras when making/tuning design features on my stock builds as I
get to review performance "in slow motion".
I attach a Xreplay HD cam onto stock facing target and set up a HD cam on the side to film the entire rifle (and me) in tracking performance.
Based on how in runs and what I see,I can make adjustments to the stock
set up until I get a comfortable stock that "behaves" consistently.
(add some here or remove some there) ...but once the "tune" is done,final finishing is completed.
I make it "work" first and then "make it pretty" but I'm not over-concerned about the pretty part.
Looks good!! Post a finished pic please when done
Regards
Gord O

DenisA
Posts: 1430
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:00 pm
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD

#10 Postby DenisA » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:38 pm

I used the stock today with the .284. I'm suprised at how much it torques. Far worse than my current stock which sits quite high. I believe this might be proof that rifle weight counteracts torque better than stock design. My current stock is 9.9kg and this is 8.1kg.

Also, I think that the straight sides exaggerate the effect. My theory is, as the stock torques, the forend sides grab the NEO side bags and try to lift the rest. I've never seen this NEO move at all let alone the way it was.

I think I definately need to get that extra 2 kg in front of the action and try again.

Watching the video afterwards, the rifle torque is rediculous.

The bag riders work a treat, it slides sooooooo smoothly in the bag. I wonder if this also exaggerates felt recoil.

The stocks is very comfortable and worth persuing.

As I suspected, the load didn't shoot anywhere nearly as well as it does in the other stock.

:cry: :cry: :cry:

AlanF
Posts: 6806
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:22 pm
Location: Maffra, Vic

#11 Postby AlanF » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:02 pm

Denis,

I think you're right about the need for more weight forward. With that stock, the weight on your front rest is already reduced by the fact that both front and rear rest contact points are more forward on the stock than the average setup, because there is a long fore-end, and the adjusting butt plate mechanism takes up quite a length of the butt. You might need to go with a thicker barrel (and non-fluted), or have you considered a tuner/weight on the barrel? My stock has a low profile fore-end (probably the lowest on the planet - the barrel sits 4mm above the front bag) and with a 32" long 1¼" straight profile barrel it is quite front heavy, and torque recoil is minimal. Also at the risk of upsetting the purists, I don't like the rifle to be too slippery in the bags. Both front and rear are cordura, and as long as the movement is reasonably smooth I'm happy. I wouldn't be surprised if torque recoil increases along with rearward recoil when rests are slippery.

Alan

DenisA
Posts: 1430
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:00 pm
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD

#12 Postby DenisA » Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:34 pm

Thanks Alan,

I'll be pondering on this one over the next few days no doubt.

Heres one of the vids if anyones interested. The sun was in a bad possy, so the video isn't great, but it serves its pupose. Best viewed on 480.

http://youtu.be/TLDTtPENNNM

Quick
Posts: 924
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:09 pm
Location: Yanchep, Western Australia
Contact:

#13 Postby Quick » Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:37 pm

Alan, regarding the stock being not to slippery on the bags, I'm doing the same with my 6x47L in its McM F-Class stock. This stick is really smooth and I have swapped to a protector DR Flat Top rear bag with 3-4" long ears and have been playing around with the front bag tension on the stock to control recoil. It tracks very straight with this set up and its very nice to shoot. I shot a 308 FS rifle yesterday that is probably the slickest on bags I've ever used and it just slams me if I do hold it right.

I think there is defiantly something to controlling the recoil of the rifle with the bag set up and ensuring its not too fast as it can jump easier I think.
Shaun aka 'Quick'
Yanchep, Western Australia

308 Win F/TR & F-S
7mm F-Open Shooter.

DenisA
Posts: 1430
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:00 pm
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD

#14 Postby DenisA » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:11 pm

I've been watching this video over and over and I've noticed what I think is a critical flaw.
Looking at the thin shadowed line on the barrel, just above the unshaded forend, you can see the barrel vibrating badly after the shot and after the stock has settled. Its very obvious on the first few shots.
I think this re-enforces the idea that there's not enough meat under the V-block.

The videos I have of my other stock don't show the same behaviour.

Thanks for the comments all. More R & D required.

Brad Y
Posts: 2018
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:21 pm

#15 Postby Brad Y » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:49 pm

If you look on the manners F class stock, they have a big rib running down from the fore end to under the action and molding into the butt. It probably helps stiffen everything right up.

I do think Alan is on the right track- a heavier profile barrel or a tuner might be good. When I hold my 7mm under the action the whole gun wants to fall onto the muzzle. Not that there isnt enough weight in the butt, but it seems to be an absolute kitten in the bags.


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