F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

We want to hear what your club is doing to bring in new members. Tell us what works, and give credit to those who are making the effort.

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Jase PTRC
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#106 Postby Jase PTRC » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:36 pm

That is pretty poor Dennis, I would have thought your idea would be encouraged. Shows exactly why growth is a slow as it is, the mentality is wrong and stale and to be honest as a new shooter who would want to be part of a club with that mind set???

AlanF
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#107 Postby AlanF » Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:14 pm

Maybe there's some "history" with the SSAA in your area which will slow your progress, but I'd just keep squeaking the door Denis. In 10 years time when its all happened as you're suggesting, you'll be able to look back with some satisfaction.

mike H
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#108 Postby mike H » Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:37 pm

DenisA wrote:We had a GM this morning and I put my idea to the club. It went pretty much exactly as I expected it would and my motion to develop a system to encourage SSAA members to shoot with us on weekends was rejected by everyone present.

The "us and them" attitude was strong and voiced by one committee member in particular. That person highlighted their view that "they're not the sort of people we want in our club". Disgusting..


As you would expect,I have heard this for years,only a couple of weeks ago,I said to a a NRAA member,(who brain washes the SSAA and non members of any shooting group) that NRAA type shooting clubs and members are not worth associating with.Unfortunaly some NRAA members have the same opinion of the SSAA.Having been a SSAA member far longer than a NRAA member,I think it is time petty hostilities need to be forgotten.
If I go to the SSAA Range and shoot in one of their competitions,I shoot their rules,is it not too much to expect a similar attitude from SSAA members.Surely after few visits,either way,we can either join in,or say this is not for me,I will stay entirely with my organisation.
To me it is obvious,that both organisations, are suffering in the current climate.
Mike.

johnk
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#109 Postby johnk » Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:40 pm

Well put, Mike.

DenisA
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#110 Postby DenisA » Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:42 pm

Mike at least the SSAA facilitate for many different people and rifles including our types of rifles in benchrest. SSAA shooters are generally far more open minded than many NRAA members. I've never met an SSAA member that said they don't want my kind around, if anything, they're very eager to talk your ears off about all the intricacies we all play with.

Partly because of the diverse and welcoming attitude of the SSAA they don't have low membership numbers.

If you don't show licensed shooters what its is to be an NRAA member and the fun of our disciplines, how would they ever know what they're missing out on, especially when they're uncomfortable trying it without encouragement because of the non welcoming attitudes they're faced with.
We've already established that cost are too high to attract the majority of non shooters, but that's O.K, apparently, according to my club we should just keep pretending we're doing something about trying to increase membership numbers.

I have a lot of thoughts on this topic but I'll bite my tongue from here as I'm defeated and resent these BS elitist attitudes in NRAA clubs.

SunnyCoast 5r
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#111 Postby SunnyCoast 5r » Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:43 pm

This issue is very emotive but can I just make a few points about the GM rejection of Denis' motion (my opinion - I do not speak for anyone else):

The motion was given a fair hearing (contrary views were a bit poorly worded perhaps)

Many positive and encouraging comments were made

Past efforts to include SSAA members or encourage new members were discussed

Denis was thanked (sincerely I felt) for putting the motion

I voted AGAINST the motion because I feel the way forward is to promote FTR to the target group (no pun intended). If numbers increase then perhaps we can grade FTR without much of a leap.

I feel that we need to promote our points of difference (existing competition; existing classes that can evolve; great range facilities; and friendly, experienced shooters willing to help new members).
After all that is why I joined this year after checking out the club myself. And I am the sort of shooter this whole discussion was about: SSAA member, hunting background, knowledge of reloading etc.

After the GM we had at least 4 varmint/tactical rifles on the mound for the 700y practice all having fun. No sheep stations but of course we were all trying to get good scores.

Denis is correct in that membership will be a pressing issue but maybe we will have to wait until it is critical on a club-by-club basis to galvanise existing members into action.

But just before too many people assume that existing members are all dinosaurs we need to reiterate comments already made on this thread: existing NRAA members just want to shoot not write/administer new rules; they have the right to have their views respected too; and SSAA members have the opportunity to see how F class works and try it if they want.

Deep breath everyone lest we divide the existing, active club members unnecessarily.

Now, about those bloody FTR bipods...

DenisA
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#112 Postby DenisA » Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:11 pm

SunnyCoast 5r wrote:
Many positive and encouraging comments were made

Denis was thanked (sincerely I felt) for putting the motion



G'day Pete,

I don't recall those comments. IMO, Just a little Come and Try propaganda.

Aside from niceties, I think the committee was only sincerely thankful that I accepted defeat calmly.

DenisA
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#113 Postby DenisA » Wed May 04, 2016 9:26 am

This weekend just gone, I brought a friend up to the club for a shoot at 400y. He has his license but is a new to shooting and isn't sure which avenue he wants to take just yet. He isn't in a rush, he's a very calculated bloke. He loves guns and all things military, he's mid 30's and very level headed.

I set him up with the 6BR which has a March 8-80x on it. I coached him with the volatile wind and he had a great shoot, really enjoyed himself, the sport and all the intricacies in the sport that I'd touched on. He was very interested in pursuing one of our disciplines and had lots of questions.

One of his latter questions was, "How much is a scope?". I said that you could purchase a good scope for LR for around the $1000 mark, but I made the mistake of saying "The one you used is currently about $4000". That was a BIG mistake. Although I explained that it wasn't necessary to buy a scope like that and went through all the details and options, he was very taken back.

I offered him the use of my gear and a rifle for as long as he wanted to help him decide what he wanted to do, but that didn't undo the horror.
I don't think he's given up on shooting F-class but I certainly destroyed most of that initial excitement which is critical for new shooters. Hope I haven't lost him.

I don't want to lie to people, but I think from now on I'll avoid advising on what you can spend and just offer advice on the minimum to be involved.

The situation made me think back to when I started shooting and bought my first rifle/scope. I didn't know about F-class and I'd bought a tactical style Savage .308 and Nikko Stirling 6-24x Target Master for about $300. At the time, there was no way in the world I would have spent more. I started F-class about a year later, realised I needed more power and bought a Nikko Stirling 10-50x for about $50 more which lasted about a month before it died. I took it back for warranty and put a store credit towards a NF NXS 12-42x at $2500.

If someone told me I should spend $2500 on a scope at the start, I wouldn't have started. It took my own experience and addiction to justify the cost.

Any way, the point to this post, is that the way that we say things and try to explain things to new shooters, even though we're just trying to be helpful and offer as much info as we can, can more easily turn them away as it can bring them on board. We need to be careful of how much info we give.

Thought I'd share the story.

AlanF
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#114 Postby AlanF » Wed May 04, 2016 11:52 am

Good points Denis. And in my opinion the difference in scores between a $4000 and $1200 scope is usually nothing at all. There is a certain level of optical and mechanical quality that you usually get with a $1200 scope, and anything more is mostly a "feel-good" luxury. I think a $2000 plus action is far more important than going over about $1500 with a scope. And buying a couple of extra barrels is better value also.

DenisA
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#115 Postby DenisA » Wed May 04, 2016 1:46 pm

AlanF wrote:Good points Denis. And in my opinion the difference in scores between a $4000 and $1200 scope is usually nothing at all. There is a certain level of optical and mechanical quality that you usually get with a $1200 scope, and anything more is mostly a "feel-good" luxury.


I agree with that Alan and explained it similarly. I also agree that good barrels is money better spent than upgrading a great scope to a greater scope.

GregW
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#116 Postby GregW » Wed May 25, 2016 1:07 pm

Looking around, I see a number of young people shooting "F" class..........some of them very young. I'm of the opinion that it would be a good time to look at junior State teams. (similar to under 25 in TR) After all, these young guns are the future world championship team members. Perhaps we look at a goodwill basis to start. I reckon NSW could find four for a team under, say 20. The opportunity to mix and compete will only ever be good for the future. How are the other States situated? and what do you think?

Greg Warrian.

bartman007
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#117 Postby bartman007 » Wed May 25, 2016 9:40 pm

Under 25's competition is a great idea.

Only thing I can see will be an issue, is which discipline...Open/FTR/Std???

To do all 3 will not get up due to the expense to each association. Team entry costs are high for each state.

But a composite team may get up, and in the spirit of competition is a great starting point for our up and coming shooters!
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Jase PTRC
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#118 Postby Jase PTRC » Thu May 26, 2016 8:18 am

I think if considering any kind of Junior development for F class they should start in F STD. This will aid in helping them to learn and make wind calls at all ranges and It would likely keep running costs down also.

bartman007
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#119 Postby bartman007 » Thu May 26, 2016 11:15 am

F class they should start in F STD


Thinking in line of the future and International Competition, it may be better to focus on FTR or F-Open.

At least with FTR they could use 155's and be competitive, as well as learn how to handle a bipod. This would keep the cost down compared to F-Open.

Conversely, a 6mm F-Open rifle would be cheap to run as well as extremely accurate and easy to tune. With very little recoil it would be a dream to shoot for younger participants both male and female.

PS: You won't need a $1,000+ front rest to get a 60.10, as a simple BR Rock will do the job.
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Jase PTRC
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#120 Postby Jase PTRC » Thu May 26, 2016 4:46 pm

I understand where international competition is going that doesnt mean its the best place to try and start your shooting career....As for learning to handle a rifle and Bipod that can be done in F std, the current Australian no.1 ranked F std shooter uses a bipod. I guess what im getting at is its cheaper to load for f std and when learning the fundamentals my thoughts are wouldn't it be better to learn to shoot 155's well (as they are less forgiving, handling and wind reading errors are more easily shown on target) before progressing to a High BC projectiles High Mv caliber?


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