F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

We want to hear what your club is doing to bring in new members. Tell us what works, and give credit to those who are making the effort.

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Norm
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#31 Postby Norm » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:03 pm

I would make the rifle weight limit 8.5kg the same as F/TR and including bipod.
The rear bag weight limit should be 1kg at most.

I don't see an issue with shooters using a light weight rear beanie bag in the Hunter class. It may actually make it easier for them which would be a good thing to boost their confidence.

Rear beanie bags filled with small plastic beads are the standard item that long range field shooters use. They are as light as possible while still offering some excellent rear support. They weigh just over 1/2 kg or 1.33lbs in the old scale.

These Red Tac beanie bags are the most popular sort used.
http://www.redtacgear.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5

daj
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#32 Postby daj » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:41 pm

Denis,
FYI
TRG (with 23" heavy palma barrel)+folding bipod+NXS+sling+brake = 7.3kg
Accuracy Int. are heavier but 8.25kg should cover it ok unless gamers start using 32" bull barrels.

DenisA
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#33 Postby DenisA » Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:09 pm

It looks like that's settled then. 9kg max weight limit for prac. Its not like anyone gong to be scrutinised anyway. Unless JohnK comes up for a shoot, then we can set up a scrutineering stand :lol: Hahahaha

Max 1 kg bag or sock for the rear of both.

mike H
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#34 Postby mike H » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:24 am

This is an amazing discussion,started off by alluding that F/class was too exclusive and expensive for the average person to even consider,then works itself up to a competition for rifles that would cost as much or more than the best F/Open rifle.
Mike.

tom1
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#35 Postby tom1 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:50 am

Yes they are expensive but the point is that most of these rifles are owned by younger blokes who wont buy or cant afford another F Class rifle. I would suggest that the only restrictions on setting up a new class should be under 8mm and under the energy limits. Just get these potential new members shooting at our ranges. After awhile some of will discover that they want to continue shooting F Class or TR ,sell their rifle to buy a dedicated Target rifle. All this other crap about weight limits and rear bags just turns them away.There must have been about six different suggestions in this discussion , any young bloke reading these would likely say stuff this . We need to get these people shooting without telling them this rifle is too heavy or the bag is not right or that bipod is no good. The only downside to this is we will have to put up with the odd gun nut or wannabe sniper.

Cameron Mc
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#36 Postby Cameron Mc » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:25 am

My concern here is the cost to State Associations / Clubs to cater for another class.
Local OPM's usually cater for TR-a, TR-b, TR-c, FSA, FSB, FO and FTR.
Cost for medals prizes etc is high.

Why can't these rifles just be used in FO class.

Cheers
Cam

daj
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#37 Postby daj » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:33 am

Denis, tom1 makes a good point. The real goal is to get young shooters on the mound trying out long range shooting with whatever suitable and "range legal" rifle they have. Minimum rules is the way to start but you will find most rifles will already fit into the template you mentioned.

DenisA
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#38 Postby DenisA » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:34 am

Tom I agree with you, the less restrictions the better. After all we're not talking about sheep stations, its just club shooting. We just need to make it easy and attractive to get SSAA members to feel comfortable enough to come over and get addicted :D

Realistically, we're not doing anything different to what's happening now at ranges across Aus. If someone from the SSAA wants to come up and shoot their tactical style rifle on any given weekend, they're welcome (with no muzzle brake).

The main goal of this idea is to get a communication channel open to SSAA members and make them feel welcome, know they're wanted and have a like minded group of people to shoot those rifles with at longer ranges.

Mike I don't see it that way at all. There's 2 classes mentioned that cater for what I believe are the 2 main groups at SSAA that might be in tantalized in coming over to the long ranges.
What we're trying to do with the practical class is make it suitable to a variety of different people that want to shoot anything factory Rem700 Police to a Accuracy International.
It just happens that there are a lot of blokes with very expensive tactical rifles that would love to stretch their legs. They have to be included too.

How has it become a competition for top end rifles?

AlanF
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#39 Postby AlanF » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:38 am

Not so sure I agree with the general thrust here. Rules and discipline have always been a strength of NRAA affliliated shooting. It puts us in a good light with the community and in particular with the police. I'm sure we can devise an attractive class without a major relaxation of rules. Its always going to be a compromise and we can never please everyone. On the subject of snipers, real ones I'm sure would be subject to much more discipline and rules than any of us, and as far as equipment goes, they would have to accept what they're issued with. Maybe the "now generation" just wants the glamour without the reality. Well in the words of an old Rolling Stones song, "You can't always get what you want".

daj
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#40 Postby daj » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:44 am

Cam, the solution to that is offer no prizes until the numbers warrant it. Most of the new shooters I helped at CATs could not care less about prizes. They just wanted to join in with what they had.

DenisA
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#41 Postby DenisA » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:45 am

Cameron Mc wrote:My concern here is the cost to State Associations / Clubs to cater for another class.
Local OPM's usually cater for TR-a, TR-b, TR-c, FSA, FSB, FO and FTR.
Cost for medals prizes etc is high.

Why can't these rifles just be used in FO class.

Cheers
Cam


Hi Cam,

I completely agree. Though these rifles wouldn't be competetive in FO.

I'm not suggesting including these classes at OPM's at all. I think OPM's and Queens should be left for the current disciplines. If those that participate in these club shoots I'm talking about want to get into OPM's, then there's a reason to start looking at becoming a NRAA member and upgrading class.

I'm basing all this on SSAA members shooting with us on club days only, receiving reciprocal range fees without having to join the club and shooting with a class of rifle that is similar to their own.

No additional cost would burden anyone.

Anthony
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Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:30 pm

Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#42 Postby Anthony » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:08 am

DenisA wrote:Nice rifle Anthony. I'd love to see these things in action on the long range.

Your probably right Alan, but in the interest of trying to include everyone the bar needs to be set high. Would 8kg allow for a NXS or S&B, 24 - 26" bull barrel, AI or KRG chassis, Atlas bi-pod, atlas mono pod, front grip, all the stuff that these guys want.


What's yours weigh Anthony.



cheers Denis

it weighs just under 8KG (7.75) and is probably a heavier than usual setup for a 24" barrel .

Anthony
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Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:30 pm

Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#43 Postby Anthony » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:16 am

AlanF wrote: On the subject of snipers, real ones I'm sure would be subject to much more discipline and rules than any of us, and as far as equipment goes, they would have to accept what they're issued with. Maybe the "now generation" just wants the glamour without the reality. Well in the words of an old Rolling Stones song, "You can't always get what you want".


The subject of snipers is one that was brought up to be condescending, not something anyone else is pretending to be relevant here.
we don't have to work with something given to us, we buy our equipment and some have no interest in a rifle that fits the usual Fclass type. the discussion is to whether we keep excluding them or make a provision for them.

but unfortunately these type of attitudes are what stops development of pretty well anything that isn't already established. Probably similar for Fclass when it started as you still hear TR blokes saying they will give up shooting altogether before using a scope.

everyone is different but do you really want to be the bloke that shoots down all the ideas because of some perceived threat to the same old?

DenisA
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#44 Postby DenisA » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:40 am

Its getting a little off topic but I think the subject of snipers does have some relevance in a round about way and NOT a negative one.

There are lots of young blokes that get involved in shooting as they've been inspired by computer games or movies. They've purchased or built rifles that resemble those they've aspired too.

I don't see why that should be an issue. We all love guns and shooting regardless of how we started. We all love seeing military things whether we admit it or not.

Whether your a collector of, and love old military rifles which is respected more than not or you love modern military rifles which seems to be frowned upon by many because of media perception. It's all the same. We all love guns, we love shooting, no point arguing about the styles of rifles or the reason we like shooting, lets just do it together.

Norm
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#45 Postby Norm » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:44 am

With regard to coming up with a bunch of new rules.
The idea is not to make this class any different to how any other type of F-Class is conducted.
The idea is to create a class where practical type field rifles can compete with each other in a competitive manner at club level.

To do this rules must be created that would exclude heavy F-Open rifles and equipment from this class. Otherwise someone will rock up with a 10kg 7mmSAUM and shoot off a SEB pedestal using a 20kg rear rest.


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