F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

[Anthony]

, lets just do it together.

exactly.

[Anthony]

in regards to Norms post about rules, I think it makes a good point. the whole idea of something like this is just to include a new class of rifle not create a new competition.

for me personally it is exciting to see these sorts of discussions because these are the types of rifle I am interested in as well as a lot of the other blokes i shoot with . I reckon some blokes shooting open and standard currently would probably be keen to have a crack too.

currently there are some other comps using the "practical " style rifles like the event this sunday at castlemaine. while these competitions are not Fclass related they are held on a VRA range which leads into another valid aspect of what we are talking about which is practice for these events. whilst that cant be the driving factor i do think it is a benefit. rather than just having people sign on for the day for the practical competition we might actually get some long term members out of this. a "normal" club Fclass shoot is more precise and challenging than the deliberate serials in the practical comps as it requires a higher level of precision to get a decent score.

[AlanF]

Anthony,

I'm just trying to put some balance into the "give them what they want" mentality. All aspects of any new class need to be carefully considered from many angles. I have been advocating the formation of new class(es) for years. But things like the acceptance of existing NRAA members definitely do matter. You need enthusiasm from many people like Denis to get these things started. You can have all the encouragement you like from outsiders, but it is current NRAA members who will have to do all the early work.

Alan

[johnk]

I'm somewhat wary of having too many rules to start with as if the class continues it will need to evolve to suit the participants. Surely we've learned from the existing classes' struggles to update after coming down hard in the beginning.

[Cameron Mc]

I'm somewhat wary of having too many rules to start with as if the class continues it will need to evolve to suit the participants. Surely we've learned from the existing classes' struggles to update after coming down hard in the beginning.

You have pretty well summed it up John.

A question.........will these new shooters join NRAA?
I know of NRAA clubs where SSAA members join only as club members, which they have the right to do, but it is left to the affiliated members to keep the club going. This is just a personal observation.
I have nothing against SSAA members, I am one myself.

[Cameron Mc]

An extract from the last NRAA News Letter:

In a period of ten years, we have changed from TR to F Class and then F Class has diversified into
four separate classes and still people want more. Care must be taken to ensure that there are not
too many classes for each to economically survive.

Cheers
Cam

[Brad Y]

Im not really one for making up special classes and rules for special people who dont want to conform to what the SSR's have in them. But just having people shoot what ever they bring so long as long as they are a commercially available rifle and just score them together using TR scoring method is an easy way to get more shooters on the line. Eventually the bug of accuracy will win them over- seen it time and time again. Lots of shooters around here have brought their hunting guns along to see what they can do out to 500m or so and joined up from there. If you put them against proper f class rifles they will more than likely get flogged and not want to return. Let them compete against each other for a bit of fun. Thats what alot of people want initially- not competition, just to get to pull the trigger and have some fun.

The other thing is there are field rifle rules in the book for a reason! If your club wants more shooters- run field rifle events! We can get up to 30 shooters in an arvo twice a month by running them, and if someone sets up an f class gun to the side for zeroing or giving people a go for fun, they often come over for a sticky beak and then the next morning they will come to watch f class people shoot and can join in from there. You shoot what you bring and get to burn gunpowder and also get to prospect around for potential new f class shooters.

[DenisA]

You have pretty well summed it up John.

A question.........will these new shooters join NRAA?

I guess we can only try and see.

It won't cost anything to try this system. Its really just some creative marketing to make it appear that we're offering something new, which we really wouldn't be (other than extending an accepting attitude). We'd just be opening that communication channel between SSAA and NRAA clubs.

I think that if we can get these guys playing a long range score based competition rather than simply shooting large steel plates at distance, those that are honestly intrigued with precision would want to hone their ability. I think that they might be the ones that would have a competitive nature also. I think that anal characteristic is common in so many of us.

I'm hoping that those guys might then join the NRAA club so that they can compete in OPM's and Queens and take stake in annual club comp awards. Hopefully if that happened then equipment would progress.

Obviously I wouldn't bet my house on it, but something has to be done. The ultimate question is, is there a better cost effective idea that actually works better than the current system in attracting new members.

[Norm]

Field Class??
At the moment it seems quite restrictive.
A few mods to the rules to include some of what we have been discussing and it would most likely fulfil the requirements.
Then maybe there would be no need for an additional class.

[jondavball]

I for one am very happy to see this discussion as I fit very nicely into one of the groups being discussed i.e. late forties, new hobby and wanting to challenge myself with long distance shooting. However, when I took up shooting about a year ago I concurrently visited and joined NRAA in Canberra, as well as joining friends out in the field. After much deliberation however I couldn't justify (yet) spending $5000 on a rifle and scope that I couldn't use out in the field so went the other direction and bought something a little more versatile. These days I am stuck firing out to 500m on the SSAA range in Canberra or shooting further out in the field. I look forward to hopefully being able to use the NRAA range in Canberra again, with the rifle I have now, with the longer term intent of moving to F-Class.

[bobeager]

Another variation on this theme is to:

1. Welcome new interested persons provided they have firearms licence, and their kit can hit the "black". We always encourage interested people to attend when we are shooting 300 to 600 yards. We have 2 club rifles as well.

2. If their kit is .223, or .308 we put them in F std, otherwise F Open.

3. We operate on a Handicap system for Club shoots. This approach levels the playing field as far as equipment is concerned, both for existing club members and visitors.

4. So, at then end of the club shoot, we have off rifle AND Handicap winners.

Even so, it is hard to keep the "interested/visitors" coming back when we tell them how much the annual membership fee is, as most cannot see a return for the dollars that flow upstream to state and national bodies.

I guess we "keep" say 1 in 5 , and they invariably get the "bug". The big worry for the future is that we are only just keeping up with natural attrition.

This has been a topic of discussion at each of our recent AGM's, and we don't have an answer. The membership did discuss allowing people to join without being affilliated with the State RA, thus reducing the entry cost, but our club is "loyal to the fullbore shooting movement" and have elected not to go down this path yet!

Footnote: SSAA also have a club/facility on our range complex. All the young people (guys, girls, families) are over there shooting 50/100 yard RIMFIRE

[AlanBT]

Hi Bob,

What is your handicap system to 'level the playing field'. Thinking maybe our club could adopt similar.

Alan

[argh]

Hi Dennis

Good topic, and its interesting to see the direction that it has taken.

A couple of things that come to mind that I think some posters on here need to think about.......

The sport of Fullbore shooting is always changing, like so many things in life, evolution is the key to success. We have gone from military, to pure target with an even playing field (issued ammo), to newer and more accurate rifles, and new disciplines in FClass.
Some people on here came into FClass when it was the new thing in Fullbore shooting under the NRAA - these people were seen as the "Newcomers" and seen as trying to take the sport away from its traditional roots. These FClass shooters were frowned on by the traditional target shooters (some are yet to get over it too)
It would appear that FClass shooters are painting others trying to come in to the shooting sports with more modern ideas as second class sports, or inferior. Especially the use of terms like Sniper Wanabees, and the term 'black guns'.
Some on here are even advocating that we do not want to actively target certain demographics into our sport.

Rather than spending time and effort trying to attract young people, why not recognise that they are more likely to be attracted to other forms of shooting, and concentrate our F-Class recruiting efforts on the 50s plus age group, where we'll get a better return on investment. By all means encourage young people to come and have a go, and plant the seeds for them to possibly return later in life.

(well isn't that the pot calling the kettle black !)

If you want this sport, or any sport/activity to grow or at least keep up with attrition of elderly members, then you need to move with the times. JUST AS HAPPENED when when FClass become a discipline.

Now.

Back onto the subject of new people coming into the sport. We need to actively encourage new people to take up the sport with the gear that they have, and have a somewhat competitive area of the sport that doesn't require a huge outlay to reasonably participate.

Sporter/Varmint class that has been discussed is exactly that. North Arm where Dennis shoots (and I used to ) has a group of members that turn up and shoot with their varmint/tactical rifles on bipods, and they would informally compete with themselves. Cudos to those guys, but little support from the NRAA in encouraging these people. some of those guys are probably going on to more competitive gear and different classes such as FOpen, but they at least started somewhere, and to North Arms credit (well most members) they did encourage these guys.

I also think that somewhat people need to look at what gear is required to be competitive at club level with factory gear. Do we all really need $4,000 custom rifles and march/Nightforce Scopes? Do we need to tell people that they need to have a custom xxxx action, with an xxxx barrel and a xxx xscope adding up to over $6,000, just to compete?

My history - I started a couple of years back after being away from full bore shooting for near on 25 years . I am in my mid 40's, young kids, time poor on weekends, not much disposable income left (after my kids use it all up). I could not afford a custom rifle when I got back into the sport, I could not find a decent omark suitable for FClass, so I went and got a factory varmint rifle with what I read to understand was a decent action, with the intention of shooting the first barrel out, then progressively upgrading to something that may be competitive. I have a Howa factory action, with a modified B&C tactical stock (oops, used that Tactical word, and the stock is even black too), and now with a second hand low round Maddco barrel (thanks to a member from off here).

At first, I was in the low 50's for scores but quickly got my scores up to 56 to 58's with the factory barrel, even using a folding bipod. Two years on, I am now graded into F Standard A grade. My NRAA grading is just under 97%, and that's shooting a factory repeater rifle, with a cheap scope. Hell, I even reload with Lee dies (plus a Forster seater). I am not beating the top F Standard shooters, and certainly was not competitive with a straight factory rifle, but was not too far off either.

I think I am exactly the person that the sport needs to target for future members, along with the younger people that may be more into sporting or even tactical rifles.

We need to stop thinking that only Barnards/Stolle/BAT custom actions are required with expensive barrels and high end scope, to be somewhat competitive. And if at the same time if we have a group of people that can compete based on cheaper factory available gear, such as the suggested class for sporting/varmint repeater actions off bipods, then you will attract new shooters who would otherwise be scared off by the $6,000 outfits, plus rests, plus reloading gear...

If NRAA Clubs, at club level, assist with having a mentality that yes you can compete with sporting off the shelf varmint rifles, in their own sub category, more members will come.

More members means more $ in the association, more members means more influence, more members means that the sport of Fullbore Target shooting under the NRAA will not die off. Being flexible and welcoming new ideas and allowing the sport to evolve is the key to success.

I hope you have not fallen asleep during my rant, and I hope that those of you who do not want to welcome new members or styles of shotting and evolution start think of the early days of FClass as it evolved from Target shooting.

Rant over

Adrian

[tom1]

Maybe I shouldnt have used the term gun nuts or sniper wannabees, my mistake. It seems that many on here are of the opinion that we need to get these people with their rifles to the range to have a go at shooting. I think the idea of using the TR target is a good one just so they have an idea of what is required in terms of accuracy. Later when they show commitment they can then be introduced to the F Class target. Dont worry about prizes or medals just get them competing at club level with as few restrictions as possible.We cant afford not to try to get new shooters. Like Adrian has posted the sport is constantly evolving and those that dont adapt slowly disappear . I shoot TR but still like to observe the FClass shooters when I get the chance.

[DenisA]

I think the consensus is that it would be beneficial to have practical shooters shooting with our clubs and to encourage who we can in to F class.

2 basic things need to happen in my opinion.
Firstly a good cheap system needs to be set that will not affect those that are currently shooting and don't want part in this or affect the current disciplines.
Secondly, as many club members as possible need to put the agreed upon system to their committees and try to get the system going everywhere for consistency.

If everyone was trying to work with the same system from the beginning then experience could be shared and the system refined.