F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

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Send-it
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#121 Postby Send-it » Fri May 27, 2016 6:26 am

Our club has developed a category to help the new or cash strapped shooter, a couple of years ago, and has proven helpful in reassuring new shooters that they can still start shooting, and even compete in a form or 'type' of f class until they can progress further with it if and when money permits.
It's called "Hunter Class".
Similar to a field rifle event, but with an f class flavor to it, that is done side by side with other f class shooters on the mound etc.
here's the specs. (cut and pasted from a document of mine);

H (Hunter/varmint) class rules (also known in the USA as F-PR)
Purpose = to allow people with non-target (sporter/varmint/long range hunter) type equipment an opportunity to start participating in a form of shooting, representing that of medium to long range hunting/carrying type shooting, yet in a competition type format.
Also serves as a good substitute category for those to participate in while their main target rifles are being worked on etc.
This is also intended to raise public interest into the current form of long range target shooting such as ‘Target Rifle (full-bore) and F-class and its variants.



CTV ‘Hunter Class’ rules and specs.

1) Cartridges;
Any cartridge up to 8mm calibre. (As per NRAA rule)
Projectile should be considered suitable for ethical hunting practices.(in other words, not target projectiles)
(cartridge COAL must be kept within rifle magazine length limits).

2) Optics;
Any optic, fixed or variable, but set no higher magnification than 16x power, at the time of shooting.

3) Action;
Any action considered ‘fit for a hunting rifle’. (Repeating or single shot action permitted)

4) Barrel Length;
Barrel length is not to exceed 26.5 inches from receiver to muzzle.
(Muzzle breaks are not permitted in normal events.) (but up to the R.O's discretion otherwise)

5) Trigger;
Any trigger deemed fit for use by the range officer.
After market triggers are permitted.

6) Bipod;
Any forward folding ‘hunting’ type bipod, such as a Harris or Atlas bipod.
No other front rest types, other than typical hunting types are allowed!!

Bipod 'must' be attached to the rifle, in a traditional hunting type arrangement.
Rear rest or rear bag cannot be used. (No rear rest, other than your own body)

7) Weight;
Rifle/scope/bipod combination shall not weigh more than 15lb, not including ammo.

8.) Scoring;
Targets are to be scored as per ‘TR’ (Target Rifle/full bore) scores

9) Ranges;
300m, 400m, 500m & 600m respectfully

10) Course of fire;
1st round = 2 sighters, plus 10 rounds
2nd round = 2 sighters plus 10 rounds

11) Shooting positions;
Shooting is done in the prone position (lying down), however, the club also possesses a mobile bench to shoot from for those not physically able to shoot prone.



I shoot this event occasionally when we're shooting the short ranges, with other rifles of mine, alongside some other shooters within our club, and i can assure you that it is still very very challenging, considering the specs involved, and yet can still be done with good but basic equipment.
this is ideal for the new shooter as it still teaches them a little bit about both full bore (TR) and f class, as it involves both optics and good gun hold at the rear etc.
it's also a good event to shoot even if it's just whiles your own f class guns are being rebuilt etc etc.

if you've got any more questions about it just ask or pm me.
my 2 cents
Last edited by Send-it on Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

bartman007
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#122 Postby bartman007 » Fri May 27, 2016 10:35 am

Hunter class sounds like a great entry point to our sport =D>
###

AlanF
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Location: Maffra, Vic

Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#123 Postby AlanF » Fri May 27, 2016 1:28 pm

Sounds good. I think the best way of managing it in terms of the SSRs would be as a sub-class of F-Open. This was done in the early days of F/TR.

johnk
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#124 Postby johnk » Fri May 27, 2016 2:05 pm

I'd recommend caution before pressing for another F class division.

Right now, we already have 4 F class grades or divisions that match promoters have to deal with compared to the 3 TR grades. If we want it to fly as a separate class, then we have the possibility of putting the pressure on clubs who have small PM attendances, & shoot short distances - or have canny clubs who could foresee that possibility ignore these shooters entirely.

The biggest issue faced by small PMs is the expense & heartburn of trying to provide for dinky di attendees without catering for those who enter selectively to harvest an easy badge.

I reckon Alan's suggestion is the way to go for the moment.

DenisA
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#125 Postby DenisA » Fri May 27, 2016 4:18 pm

If we're talking about a system to attract new comers and allow them to experience our game at a basic cost, then PM's are unlikely to attract these people in the early days. Once the addiction is fuelled then they can and would likely move in to a legitimate class.
I believe that a system like this is only necessary at club level, excluding PM's, to get shooters of other walks of life involved. That why I've been vocal about keeping it unofficial for want of a better term.

Baby steps are critical here I think.

Congratulations to CTV on a sensational system =D> . Other clubs should follow suit and show some innovation themselves to insure the future of Fullbore clubs.

Barossa_222
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#126 Postby Barossa_222 » Fri May 27, 2016 4:24 pm

I like the system they run at CTV the only change I would make would be to reduce the number of scoring shots or do 3 relays of 6 scoing shots. I have spoken about a class similar to this to a few people at our club, because it does allow the average shooter to come and try with their own gear and most hunting rifles with handloads should be able to drop a shot in the 5 ring out to at least 500 yards.

Razer
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#127 Postby Razer » Fri May 27, 2016 5:48 pm

Barossa_222 wrote:I like the system they run at CTV the only change I would make would be to reduce the number of scoring shots or do 3 relays of 6 scoing shots. I have spoken about a class similar to this to a few people at our club, because it does allow the average shooter to come and try with their own gear and most hunting rifles with handloads should be able to drop a shot in the 5 ring out to at least 500 yards.

######################################################

At Orange Rifle Range, which was shut down last October, we would occasionally attract shooters with sporting rifles.
The biggest problem is 2 stages of 2 and 10 is too many shots out of the lighter barrels which with heat generated beyond the usual seen by the average hunter, would rapidly wear out barrels.
I would also suggest in the best interests of any proposed hunter class that the shot count be reduced.
Using magazines also is a no-no on many ranges under tight/strict safety templates.
As an aside;
A few years ago I was restoring a trophy that was shot in Central West NSW and on the back was a barely discernible printed piece of paper depicting the regulations under which this shield was shot under.
Bearing in mind that train was the mode of transport in the 1930's and involved big distances, the competition consisted of one stage of 2 and 8. :shock: How dedicated was that?

Send-it
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Location: Adelaide (CTV)

Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#128 Postby Send-it » Fri May 27, 2016 6:08 pm

Barossa_222 wrote:I like the system they run at CTV the only change I would make would be to reduce the number of scoring shots .........


wanna come and try it? :)
the strings of shots aren't rushed at all so barrels don't get very warm at all.
well not much warmer than my barnard f-std rig anyway.
I use my 22-250 in it and its fine.
we just use this event as a non affiliated event anyway, just so people can still shoot, yet it's still fair, as its not quite scored as tough as f class.
tough enough though.

Philski
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#129 Postby Philski » Mon May 30, 2016 3:06 am

I shot a 7 round a month of so ago at Sandford (Tas) and it was an awesome experience. I know a lot of older shooters did this par for the course. The best thing for me, (as a new shooter) it was easier to maintain a focused level. Saved me a few bob. And got more shooters though in a shorter space of time.
(i enjoyed it a lot)

With regard to ssaa style shooting, it almost put me off completely. No offence to anyone in ssaa, but i have an investment in target rifle. Otherwise, i would have bought a hunting rifle, joined the SSAA and be done with it.

Amac
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#130 Postby Amac » Mon May 30, 2016 4:09 pm

Hi All

I think this is an excellent concept and something that I will be trying to get going at my club. The concept is bums on seats or our case shooters on the mound. Migration to F Class or even TR will be a natural event.

The idea of placing some minor boundaries around equipment is very good as it introduces the would be competitors to a set of shooting rules - other than the nominated range SSR's which still must be abided by.

Given this is already in play at other venues I would be very keen to hear how it is going and to receive any advice that could be offered to us in terms of running the events and other such issues you have encountered along the way.

We must adapt locally first before we move beyond the borders of our clubs. The shear mechanisms involved in the introduction of additional classes must be self funding and warranted - although I'm not saying that this should be a class but merely pointing out the very large elephant in the room.

Look forward to hearing more.

Cheers

Andrew

Cliff Austen
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Location: Sydney NSW Australia

Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#131 Postby Cliff Austen » Tue May 31, 2016 2:49 pm

The sporting/hunting F Class outlined above is exactly where F Class started about 20 years ago. (Fun Class)
At Nowra we used to shoot the above and then we introduced Precision Long Range Rifle - now known as F Open.
We were the Club that had all the original F Open 10 ring targets printed and would sell them all over the country.
cheers
Cliff

headspace
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#132 Postby headspace » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:08 pm

Excellent post/discussion here. I have a heavy barrel Howa barrel nd action in 6.5 Creedmoor that I fitted into a Cameron Hatcher stock. I've tried F Class at my local range and enjoyed it, but membership is small and not growing. Also as has already been said here, mainly older shooters are involved. I enquired about NRAA membership and was told it was close to $200 PA, while in the QRA it's $50.00 PA. Why? Oh by the way, I was told that I couldn't join the QRA because 0ne; I was not a Queensland resident and two; I didn't shoot "full bore". What rubbish.
I bought my gear to have some fun and not wear out the barrels on my hunting rifles and get back to my roots of the old days of 303 shooting. However I didn't want to be limited to 308 or 223, so enter F Class. I've also tried 500m Fly shooting and loved it. If F Class is to survive in Australia, club membership needs to be looked at plus an entry level class needs looking at. Look at the cost of some of the front rests being used; upwards of $2,000. Young shooters with growing families and mortgages can't afford that sort of thing.
Actually it's often surprising how well an off the hook rifle will shoot by the way. I think some shooters may be a bit intimidated by some of the expensive hardware seen on the mound in terms of competitiveness. How that class could be defined though is another matter.

headspace
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#133 Postby headspace » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:42 pm

argh wrote:Hi Dennis

Good topic, and its interesting to see the direction that it has taken.

A couple of things that come to mind that I think some posters on here need to think about.......

The sport of Fullbore shooting is always changing, like so many things in life, evolution is the key to success. We have gone from military, to pure target with an even playing field (issued ammo), to newer and more accurate rifles, and new disciplines in FClass.
Some people on here came into FClass when it was the new thing in Fullbore shooting under the NRAA - these people were seen as the "Newcomers" and seen as trying to take the sport away from its traditional roots. These FClass shooters were frowned on by the traditional target shooters (some are yet to get over it too)
It would appear that FClass shooters are painting others trying to come in to the shooting sports with more modern ideas as second class sports, or inferior. Especially the use of terms like Sniper Wanabees, and the term 'black guns'.
Some on here are even advocating that we do not want to actively target certain demographics into our sport.
Rather than spending time and effort trying to attract young people, why not recognise that they are more likely to be attracted to other forms of shooting, and concentrate our F-Class recruiting efforts on the 50s plus age group, where we'll get a better return on investment. By all means encourage young people to come and have a go, and plant the seeds for them to possibly return later in life.


(well isn't that the pot calling the kettle black !)

If you want this sport, or any sport/activity to grow or at least keep up with attrition of elderly members, then you need to move with the times. JUST AS HAPPENED when when FClass become a discipline.

Now.

Back onto the subject of new people coming into the sport. We need to actively encourage new people to take up the sport with the gear that they have, and have a somewhat competitive area of the sport that doesn't require a huge outlay to reasonably participate.

Sporter/Varmint class that has been discussed is exactly that. North Arm where Dennis shoots (and I used to ) has a group of members that turn up and shoot with their varmint/tactical rifles on bipods, and they would informally compete with themselves. Cudos to those guys, but little support from the NRAA in encouraging these people. some of those guys are probably going on to more competitive gear and different classes such as FOpen, but they at least started somewhere, and to North Arms credit (well most members) they did encourage these guys.

I also think that somewhat people need to look at what gear is required to be competitive at club level with factory gear. Do we all really need $4,000 custom rifles and march/Nightforce Scopes? Do we need to tell people that they need to have a custom xxxx action, with an xxxx barrel and a xxx xscope adding up to over $6,000, just to compete?

My history - I started a couple of years back after being away from full bore shooting for near on 25 years . I am in my mid 40's, young kids, time poor on weekends, not much disposable income left (after my kids use it all up). I could not afford a custom rifle when I got back into the sport, I could not find a decent omark suitable for FClass, so I went and got a factory varmint rifle with what I read to understand was a decent action, with the intention of shooting the first barrel out, then progressively upgrading to something that may be competitive. I have a Howa factory action, with a modified B&C tactical stock (oops, used that Tactical word, and the stock is even black too), and now with a second hand low round Maddco barrel (thanks to a member from off here).

At first, I was in the low 50's for scores but quickly got my scores up to 56 to 58's with the factory barrel, even using a folding bipod. Two years on, I am now graded into F Standard A grade. My NRAA grading is just under 97%, and that's shooting a factory repeater rifle, with a cheap scope. Hell, I even reload with Lee dies (plus a Forster seater). I am not beating the top F Standard shooters, and certainly was not competitive with a straight factory rifle, but was not too far off either.

I think I am exactly the person that the sport needs to target for future members, along with the younger people that may be more into sporting or even tactical rifles.

We need to stop thinking that only Barnards/Stolle/BAT custom actions are required with expensive barrels and high end scope, to be somewhat competitive. And if at the same time if we have a group of people that can compete based on cheaper factory available gear, such as the suggested class for sporting/varmint repeater actions off bipods, then you will attract new shooters who would otherwise be scared off by the $6,000 outfits, plus rests, plus reloading gear...

If NRAA Clubs, at club level, assist with having a mentality that yes you can compete with sporting off the shelf varmint rifles, in their own sub category, more members will come.

More members means more $ in the association, more members means more influence, more members means that the sport of Fullbore Target shooting under the NRAA will not die off. Being flexible and welcoming new ideas and allowing the sport to evolve is the key to success.

I hope you have not fallen asleep during my rant, and I hope that those of you who do not want to welcome new members or styles of shotting and evolution start think of the early days of FClass as it evolved from Target shooting.

Rant over

Adrian

Gee Adrian you've just described me, right down to the Lee dies and Howa gear.

headspace
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#134 Postby headspace » Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:59 pm

This post seems to have gone a bit quiet, what no more input? :roll:


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