F std c grade

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Zeppelinsa
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F std c grade

#1 Postby Zeppelinsa » Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:37 pm

After much reading I have started to realise that there is an issue with falling membership numbers in the sport, something which I have not seen suggested and as a new shooter to f std I was surprised that there is no c grade in f std. Why does the sport allow for beginners (like myself) to shoot c grade in tr but no c grade in f std ? The stats don't lie and from what I take from these forums tr numbers are dwindling yet f std etc is growing. It's just a suggestion but wouldn't it be better for people like myself to be able to compete against other beginners while we build our skills ? , I realise we have a handicap system but surely it's worth discussion and anything we can do to attract new members to the sport is a step in the right direction.

Regardless of whether I'm right or wrong, one thing I do know is I'm spending considerable money and time at just entry level, so being able to be competitive in f std from the beginning, I feel may well keep people's interest/commitment to the sport at a higher level and also justify the cost.

Just a new shooters thoughts, happy shooting, Neil.
We swear by the southern cross to stand truly by each other and fight to defend our rights and liberties

Barry Davies
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Re: F std c grade

#2 Postby Barry Davies » Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:13 pm

G'day Neil,
Numbers are still a problem. I don't disagree with you as there are instances where a C grade would be beneficial, but the numbers turning up at local PM's are simply not sufficient to support another grade. It certainly appears ( in some instances ) that tiny numbers in TR C grade is acceptable -- which makes little sense in the overall picture -- but that's the way it is.
TR still dominates most PM's -- although that's fast changing and will reverse sooner rather than later -- then it will be time to press for F class C grade.
Meantime, stick with it as the learning curve for F Class is much shorter than TR -- usually 12 months at C grade level then things start to happen. Plenty of good info on this site that will help to shorten the time even further--secret is to ask the questions and keep asking until you get satisfaction.

DannyS
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Re: F std c grade

#3 Postby DannyS » Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:37 pm

Barry, agree with what you are saying, how many more classes can PMs cater for ? Yes, for a new F Class shooter to go straight into B grade can be confronting, however, looking back at the old days of TR.
I won C Grade at a PM, shot a few weeks later in B Grade, won that and shot the rest of the PM in A Grade. Ending up shoot a Queens in C Grade and a Queens in A Grade in the same year. I am sure I am not the only one to do it.

F Standard B Grade has some very good shooters as does TR B Grade, but new shooters, yes, it can be a steep learning curve but aim high, grading wise. You will enjoy the trip.

Cheers
Danny

AlanF
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Re: F std c grade

#4 Postby AlanF » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:16 pm

I would advise new F-std shooters to start out at shorter range events, because the main learnt skill is wind reading, and its at the longer ranges where the wind causes the most grief for new (and some old :D ) shooters. With good equipment, I've seen several times at 300yds in calm conditions where a first-time shooter has cleaned everyone up :shock: .

higginsdj
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Re: F std c grade

#5 Postby higginsdj » Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:12 am

One could also argue that the numbers in F Standard are dwindling! Many F Std shooters are moving to Open or FTR, both of which are just the one grade!

I'd also like to point out that the cut off between A and B in f Std is the same % grade value as the cut off between TR B and C so there really is no comparison unless you want to regrade F Std A at the 97.5%!

Cheers

David

Barry Davies
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Re: F std c grade

#6 Postby Barry Davies » Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:15 am

Due to the versatility of F Class overall -- three different disciplines against one for TR -- there will always be movement from one to another. Who knows, in time the demand may be for grading of sorts in FO and FTR. Grading is progressive as it indicates quantity and a variation in quality ( expertise )
Finally, shooters have a choice and the overall picture for F Class is one of progress, currently offering much more than TR -- hence the popularity.
But that's another topic.
So, Neil, stick with it, you are on the progressive side of the fence.

johnk
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Re: F std c grade

#7 Postby johnk » Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:28 am

I rather think the WA guys have it right - split in divisions, not grades. Of course that means that the lowest skilled only ever win by accident unless there is a huge field, but as the author of this thread suggest, that's how it happens now in F class.

Of course, we could resurrect the Tyro awards that preexisted TR C grade, where the best of those who had not won skill prizes (that's a bit of a misleading description, I know) were given what was actually & effectively an encouragement award. Seems to me it's a more realistic way of supporting new shooters, rather than the TR option, which has resulted in a grade that rewards attendance at many, but no where near all venues.

aaronraad
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Re: F std c grade

#8 Postby aaronraad » Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:40 pm

I'd like to see more the growth of team events, before we start increasing individual grades as such.

Not just the representative teams between districts, but casually nominated teams on the day with scores taken from within the event (no coaches), that might include:
  • 4 shooters from one class; or
  • 4 shooters with 1 from each class.; or
  • where a team can only use one score from one shooter for each range;
  • maybe even a graded team where you need to have at least 2 novice shooters;
  • heck you could even have teams where you need one shooter from each calibre group (0.224 - 0.257; 0.264 - 0.284; 0.308 - .323).

Essentially you could form a club in the iCloud with maybe 25 team members from across the nation, but only 4 might turn up to a particular event to represent your iClub. There doesn't have to be any prizes if clubs don't want to, they just have to post the resulting scores online. The system could be run by the NRAA or similar party sponsored like the Big Bash League. Funds would be used to run the site/server and filtered back to each event organiser to assist with costs and maybe prizes. iClub members would still need to be current club members within their State to avoid eroding local members and especially for firearms licensing purposes. Just need few basic rules about joining/forming/changing an iClub.

Only problem is that we would have to run a draft or something like that to stop Marty, Rob and Alan joining the same club and shooting the same events? :D
Be careful what you aim for, you might hit it! Antipodean Industrial - Home of the G7L projectiles

Zeppelinsa
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Re: F std c grade

#9 Postby Zeppelinsa » Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:47 pm

Thanks for all the input guys, some very valid points there, great to see people willing to discuss/debate ideas even from a beginner, just more examples of why I'm proud to be a member of this sport!
We swear by the southern cross to stand truly by each other and fight to defend our rights and liberties

macguru
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Re: F std c grade

#10 Postby macguru » Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:36 pm

Their should not even be a B grade !! let alone a C grade
New converts should start in F standard (single grade) and then be channelled off to FTR or F Open depending on their inclinations..
Any more subdivisions and its bad for the sport. This way, FTR would become 308 "advanced" for the technically minded, and f open for those that want to get the MAX out of different calibers. Both internationally recognized... And F standard for those shooting omarks and target rifles fitted with scopes who are entering a new field (de facto "B" grade" ) I am not trying to denigrate the present F standard but I just feel that numbers get too few if you split them too many ways, and although FTR is not personally my first choice (i may try it ) , it is languishing at the moment for lack of numbers. ... And remember its internationally recognised but F std is NOT

cheers all
Andrew

Barry Davies
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Re: F std c grade

#11 Postby Barry Davies » Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:06 am

AFL is not an Internationally practiced sport either, but it has a HUGE following--why? Because that's what people want. They exercise their right of choice.
Lets not get back to the " do it this way or not at all " days.
If shooters want the internationally recognised disciplines of FO and FTR that's what they will choose --look after the domestic side of it first --it's what keeps this sport alive.
There was once a guy up Sydney way some years ago who honestly believed that once you reached a certain age you should be moved sideways into administration-shooting is for the younger ones. He disappeared into oblivion with his ideas -rather think he could'nt hack playing second fiddle to some of the "oldies "

flatlina
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Re: F std c grade

#12 Postby flatlina » Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:47 am

Why should someone have to start in "F STD" BTW not everyone who takes up F Class is a noobie to shooting.

Regards
jb

williada
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Re: F std c grade

#13 Postby williada » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:01 am

I think Barry makes a sound point about our domestic competition. It has to survive before priority is given to an international perspective. I think we are at the crossroads now, in terms of critical mass as we are already asking international teams to increase their self funding. My view in no way detracts from the aspiration and recognition of the members of these teams, and the new ideas that international competition brings; but IMO we need to get our priorities right otherwise we are in danger of losing ranges and the burden of maintaining them falls on too few unless we can maintain our base.

Any encouragement that is practical and participative is very enjoyable, as is the sharing of knowledge. I would like to see a pairs competition prize meeting, rather than an individual event, which is sponsored, which could include a mentor and a mentee grade using a system like Alan's to determine the winners, if different classes of gear were allowed. In a variance, the mentor could be allowed to pair with a number of shooters, but they would still have to shoot in each pairing rather than just coach.

AlanF
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Re: F std c grade

#14 Postby AlanF » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:35 am

Dave, Barry

I think that can be taken a step further, which is to first and foremost look after your own local range by encouraging new members and ensuring that ranges don't close. If sufficient energy is put into that then everything else takes care of itself i.e. growing numbers at club level lead to more and bigger prize meetings, Queens attendances etc. World Championships provide an ultimate goal to aspire to. But for the majority, its what happens most Saturdays on the local range that they would miss most if it was lost.

Back to the F-Std C grade, Barry knows my preference for the Divisions system. It means if you get a small turnout in for example F-Std, you simply don't divide the field at all. If you have a large turnout, you can divide into 2, 3, 4 or more equal divisions as desired. Very flexible, and none of the "he's only a B Grader" stigma. Rather, everyone would be classed simply as an F-Std shooter, put into a division on the day, depending on recent performances.

Its interesting that most F-Open shooters I speak to are not interested in any sort of grading or divisions. Perhaps that's one of the things that attracted them to it in the first place! :D

Alan

johnk
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Re: F std c grade

#15 Postby johnk » Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:14 am

AlanF wrote:Its interesting that most F-Open shooters I speak to are not interested in any sort of grading or divisions. Perhaps that's one of the things that attracted them to it in the first place!

Nah, they're still getting used to not all shooting on the same target like lefties do. :roll:


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