Electronic Targets long Drives and Prize Meetings

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MCLE
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Electronic Targets long Drives and Prize Meetings

#1 Postby MCLE » Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:00 am

It seems that ET are becoming more common weather you like them or not ( And this is another argument ) it looks like they are here to stay and will only get more common.I have used them a little and the one thing that struck me is speed that you can shoot at even if a time is set up between shots it's still faster than shooting on a conventional target. Now if we are going to use a faster way of marking it means that your fun is over faster as well.Drive for 3 hours to a comp shoot 30 shots your actual shooting time can be very short I know you still get your 15 mins to have your shot but most F Class shooters don't use it.Why not for Example have 3 sighters and say 20 shots to count and I'm just picking a figure here.I was talking to a Fclass shooter yesterday and he said something to me that l have heard before. When he explained to a friend about PMs the comment was made why all that fuss and expense for 30 shots what do you do for the rest of the day.Now your allocated shooting time may still be 15 min but Maybe double the amount of shots.Now this may only be for Fclass as a rule they are faster than TR shooters.For me if I was given a choice between shooting a comp on the same weekend but shooting twice the amount of shots I would go to the one that l could have the most amount of shot at the one that gives me the most amount of fun. Nothing beats the feeling of a 60 with some supers except for perhaps a 120 with some supers and make the most of the time and money spent to get there .
Thanks Michael H

AlanF
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Re: Electronic Targets long Drives and Prize Meetings

#2 Postby AlanF » Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:26 am

Michael,

If ETs stay as they are without a delay, then as you say shooting will be over quicker, and there would time for increasing the number of shots on the program as a result. But can I suggest that rather than having more shots (e.g. 15 and 20 shot) per range, that we use the time to have more ranges in a day. I say this because of a significant cost factor that could be brought into play by shooting long strings very fast, and that is throat erosion in barrels. There has been some testing done on this subject on accurateshooter.com recently (and I can't find the article of course) which showed how long fast strings dramatically reduce barrel life. And twenty shot shoots have a reputation in TR as "barrel killers" even at their rate of fire in the economical 7.62. If shooters start doing 5 seconds per shot for 20 shots with some of the hotter calibres, barrels will be "cooking" their throats out quick smart. Some may be able to afford that, but no-one would like spending 100 or 200 rounds finding the best load for a new barrel, only to see it go south at 500!

As most people are aware by now, I'm a strong advocate of regulating the rate of fire that ETs allow. While barrel life may not be the main reason for taking this stance, it is another factor to be considered. It has the potential to make the sport generally more expensive.

Alan

RMc
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Re: Electronic Targets long Drives and Prize Meetings

#3 Postby RMc » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:13 am

Michael, the NSW Queens that is shot on ETs has 4 ranges a day which is quite achievable, they shoot two say 300 in the morning and during the lunch break relocate everything to the next range and then shoot two ranges in the afternoon.

Richard

MCLE
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Re: Electronic Targets long Drives and Prize Meetings

#4 Postby MCLE » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:58 am

Yes more ranges or more shots at one range it still gives you more time shooting.You have a point Allan about running long strings might be detrimental to some cals.
Thanks Michael H

higginsdj
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Re: Electronic Targets long Drives and Prize Meetings

#5 Postby higginsdj » Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:37 am

Thats a good point. Here in the ACT, if/when we move to ET's for the Queens we are considering a change to our programme to allow for additional ranges to be shot and an earlier finish on the Sunday.

Cheers

David

aaronraad
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Re: Electronic Targets long Drives and Prize Meetings

#6 Postby aaronraad » Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:48 am

What would be nice is if you could shoot a couple of different classes, i.e. multiple entry.

I need as many chances I can get! :D
Be careful what you aim for, you might hit it! Antipodean Industrial - Home of the G7L projectiles

MCLE
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Re: Electronic Targets long Drives and Prize Meetings

#7 Postby MCLE » Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:02 pm

aaronraad wrote:What would be nice is if you could shoot a couple of different classes, i.e. multiple entry.

I need as many chances I can get! :D

Don't we all
But no reason why if it's faster and it looks like it is I can't see why not.Its all about maximising Bang for your buck.If you are going to set aside time and money for a weekend and drive for hours then let's get as much out of it as we can.
Thanks Michael H

Seddo
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Re: Electronic Targets long Drives and Prize Meetings

#8 Postby Seddo » Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:53 pm

Michael,

Its not all that uncommon in shooting sports. If you look at IPSC, the state titles are run over 2 days with 12-14 stages. Each stage will take between 3-30 seconds for the best shooters and it works out an expensive weekend to shoot 200-220 rounds. Take that a step further and i went to Ecuador for a world championships which was 33 stages over 7 days. It was a 450 round match that took less than 10 minutes of trigger time at a cost of over $6000.
----------------------
Seddo

Moe City Rifle Club

MCLE
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Re: Electronic Targets long Drives and Prize Meetings

#9 Postby MCLE » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:00 am

Hi Seddo yes shooting that amount would be an expensive excercise.But we will never get anywhere near that amount.im not talking about banging off hundreds of rounds in a comp.Most one day comps shoot a cople of ranges let's say three so say 36 shots using all your sighters.So if you reload
$45 give or take.If you were to double that shot wise 72 shots mabe $90 in Ammo this is just rought figures but still not a huge amount not compered to what you had to pay for pistol shooting.The amount we spend on Ammo for a comp is probably the cheapest part.Its getting to the stage where fuel accommodation and entry fees are the biggest expense by a long way.Im not complaining about it this is the way it is.Im just thinking it would be nice to spend a little bit more time doing what we love and this is shooting.Most of the TR shooters that l watch or score for use 3/4 of there time that is allowed and there is nothing wrong with that.But I would would say it is probably the oppersite for Fclass shooters .At comps when the range is finished the last target to finish usully has a good amount of TR shooters on it becouse of the time difference between the shooting styles and again not having a dig at TR shooters it's just the way it is .The 2 sighters and 10 to count I suppose has been around for a longtime I'm guessing probably well before Fclass.So we just shot the same amount to join in with them.But I would say we could shoot beside TR and shoot 2 sighters and 15 or 20 to count and still finish in the same time as TR shooting with the standard 12 shots.And this could be done on any target wouldn't have to be ETs.But at least it is a step in the right direction and this is getting more shooting done for the time and not slowing things down.Just a thought....
Thanks Michael H

aaronraad
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Re: Electronic Targets long Drives and Prize Meetings

#10 Postby aaronraad » Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:01 pm

MCLE wrote:The 2 sighters and 10 to count I suppose has been around for a longtime I'm guessing probably well before Fclass.So we just shot the same amount to join in with them.But I would say we could shoot beside TR and shoot 2 sighters and 15 or 20 to count and still finish in the same time as TR shooting with the standard 12 shots.And this could be done on any target wouldn't have to be ETs.But at least it is a step in the right direction and this is getting more shooting done for the time and not slowing things down.Just a thought....
Thanks Michael H


I think it was 3 sighters there in the beginning when they struggled to find the correct target using a scope with it's reduced field of view. :lol:

Didn't take them long to put them on a diet of 2 sighters only.
Be careful what you aim for, you might hit it! Antipodean Industrial - Home of the G7L projectiles

Tim N
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Re: Electronic Targets long Drives and Prize Meetings

#11 Postby Tim N » Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:52 am

Hi All,
My 10 cents on this would be more ranges that comply with international rules.
Maybe shoot bisley style, for that last range of the day as a separate comp for fun?
Reason being we have our own F class standard which is unique to us ozzies which is only shot here(I think), so rather than create another comp which just for us we could have the format for international competition as the standard here.
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC

AlanF
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Re: Electronic Targets long Drives and Prize Meetings

#12 Postby AlanF » Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:29 am

The good thing about these sorts of suggestions (i.e. more shots per range, more ranges per day, Bisley format) is that they don't require rule changes. It just requires a progressive match committee to be prepared to try changes. One of the main obstacles is the "don't do that or I won't come" brigade. But unless the changes are a very bad idea, then its unlikely to affect numbers. If its a very good idea, you might just get the opposite effect.

MCLE
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Re: Electronic Targets long Drives and Prize Meetings

#13 Postby MCLE » Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:50 am

I think Alan most Fclass shooters would welcome having more shots so yes what you say is probably right .It wouldn't slow it down it just means that the Fclass shooters would probably go closer to using there allotted time.
Thanks Michael H

Norm
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Re: Electronic Targets long Drives and Prize Meetings

#14 Postby Norm » Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:37 am

Some good ideas Michael,
One of the main reasons that I don't travel to more OPM's is that I have to travel many hours and through Melbourne to get to most of them. Not worth it just to fire 36 shots!
If the prize meet was multi day or had a larger number of shots then it would make it far more appealing.

If your looking for ideas?
Matches with more than 12 shots need to be optional as some shooters may not like to fire more than the usual number of shots for various reasons already explained.

One way that more shooting could be provided is for the inclusion of the option of nominated 15 or 20 shot matches.
A shooter could nominate to be included in an additional aggregate match based on this number of shots.

The way this could work is for the shooter at each range to fire his optional two sighters and 10 scoring shots. These scoring shots would go into the general prize meeting competition as usual.

At the completion of firing his 10 scoring shots, the shooter could fire an additional 5 or 10 shots at each range depending on what the organisers have allocated. The total number of scoring shots could then be included in the optional aggregate competition.

This way a shooter could nominate and shoot the usual number of rounds as they always have or they could nominate and shoot an optional, larger number of rounds for the larger aggregate prize. They would also being included in regular competition matches and aggregate using there first 10 scoring shots at each distance.

This not only gives the shooter the option to shoot more. It also gives then the opportunity to participate in an additional aggregate match for an additional prize. Some small additional match fee may be required for this option to cover the prize.

AlanF
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Re: Electronic Targets long Drives and Prize Meetings

#15 Postby AlanF » Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:13 am

Norm,

Or you could just have a standalone sweepstake (or similar) event at the end of each day, which would be independent of the official results system. I say this mainly because, even though stats computers SHOULD be able to handle the complications, in reality they will probably struggle :D .

Alan


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