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We want to hear what your club is doing to bring in new members. Tell us what works, and give credit to those who are making the effort.

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DaveMc
Posts: 1427
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:33 pm

#61 Postby DaveMc » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:16 pm

Bruce - there are six newish members in our club that had "practical" type rifles. Yes they had the wrong scopes, yes they had repeating rifles but they soon came over and most have since built themselves target rifles. If not they have purchased a decent scope and continue to shoot with other rifles.

NONE were crazy militia!

Nearly all built something based on good marketing hype on the internet or gunshops and wished they had come to the range first.

bruce moulds
Posts: 2255
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

#62 Postby bruce moulds » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:42 pm

dave,
i wish that was the general case.
down here it seems to be a bit the opposite. they will not even take advice re moa and things of that nature.
perhaps you have made a good point.
the innocents among them have fallen victim to marketing hype.
how can we counter this, or better, what can we offer as an alternative as an even more positive drawcard?
i have said this before,but will say it again.
i believe we should have the right to keep and bear arms of any kind, unless insane.
i believe we should be able to use such arms in any way that doesn't hurt others or destroy the balance of nature.
in this i am probably to the right of many.
i also believe that people with my beliefs are beaten. we must be pragmatic to keep what we have as long as we can.
there is a world wide movement that is working toward the pragmatic goal.
the simple solution of saying "no greeny is going to tell me what to do. i'll take them on head first" is a thing of the past.
they are going to win, and we will have what we have at their pleasure.
if the prac/tac guys want to help here, they will join us in our culture of single shot, small target, blue, red or yellow rifles with stocks totally unsuited to killing people use.
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880
http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

Quick
Posts: 886
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:09 pm
Location: Yanchep, Western Australia
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#63 Postby Quick » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:07 pm

Bruce,

You just seem to love hating on prac/tac guys when we dont even have a decent size group of them here in Australia, they have no organisation,etc at all and you think they are gona bring us all down. I can understand your points of view, but I dont think its gonna matter. The general public think we are all crazy, not matter what kind of rifle we use. Maybe if we should get rid of Prac/tac (when is only one comp in canberra so far) then we should also get rid of IPSC, Field Rifle (simulated hunting, because that can be used to kill people too), shot gun ( simulated killing of birds) and the list goes on. We need to be UNITED as a group to combat this, no matter what we shoot ok.

Help F-Class grow - easy, bring shooters(be it Prac rifles, IPSC, SSAA, etc) no matter what style of rifle they shoot and let them have a go!!!!! and introduce new people to it and show them the challenges and rewards.

I have a Prac style rifle, I shoot it single shot, when shooting F-Class. I am building a dedicated rifle and I was told when I joined that my rifle wasent perfect but it would work, and it does. It lets me learn the basics of wind reading and alike. You dont need a F-Class rifle to learn that stuff and it helps be shoot better when I can get out bush to shoot Unknown distance targets and alike.
Shaun aka 'Quick'
Yanchep, Western Australia

308 Win F/TR & F-S
7mm F-Open Shooter.

AlanF
Posts: 6751
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:22 pm
Location: Maffra, Vic

#64 Postby AlanF » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:14 pm

Bruce,

Somewhere in all of this there's some middle ground where everyone wins. My agenda in this is to secure a future for F-Class, and I see the introduction of a popular new class as the most effective strategy for doing that. Most importantly it should increase utilisation of NRAA ranges, and it could well result in an influx of new F-Classers from that source. Just accept the reality that there's a lot of shooters out there with hunting and tactical rifles who would rather do that than shoot F-Class. I applaud your well-intentioned call to increase our efforts to promote and grow F-Class. But I don't believe that is enough, because there's insufficient people with the required amount of energy and enthusiasm to carry it out.

Alan

bruce moulds
Posts: 2255
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

#65 Postby bruce moulds » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:17 pm

quick,
you obviously missed the point in my last post.
i don't hate it.
i find the rifles interesting.
i think we should all be free to use what we want.
but we live in a different world now.
keep safe,
bruce moulds.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

Quick
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Location: Yanchep, Western Australia
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#66 Postby Quick » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:33 pm

I do get your point mate, but I think that your taking a very narrow approach.

We probably do need a more varied and casual class of competition as I know people my age could maybe get bored with prone, deliberate slow fire everytime they go to the range, they like variety, difference. I dont, but from the outset, some can see it boring and we are in this to have fun :) Once they learn that its hard enough keeping it all together for the 10rds of prone deliberate slow fire, they are fine but its about getting new shooters, not current ones. I try to bring as many mates as posible to the range and have a shoot. many people like to try my rifle who are new, its much simpler then shooting of a rest and rear bag and making sure its tracking correct, etc. But then they learn that shooting Bipod prone is much harder....... Buts its a much simpler starting system for people from the outset and cheaper too!!!!!

Answer - F/TR I think would be a good idea to start with.

A Harris bipod and sand sock for maybe 100 all up is much cheaper to get going then BR rests and rear bags. Ive spent around 500 plus on my BR gear and have barely used it yet as my Omark isnt done yet. Its alot of money to have sitting around not getting used.
Shaun aka 'Quick'
Yanchep, Western Australia

308 Win F/TR & F-S
7mm F-Open Shooter.

Norm
Posts: 834
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:21 pm
Location: Gippsland, Victoria

#67 Postby Norm » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:37 pm

After reading heaps of comments and posts on other forums. Some sort of trend has become obvious to me.

One observation that I have made is that Practical/tactical/gong/field etc, type shooting is mentioned on the other popular forums in glowing terms. It is given a good wrap as being a fun and challenging thing to do.
The people that post these threads on forums go into great detail on the equipment used and the fun they had. This helps to create a lot of hype about this type of discipline.
Now most of these people are computer literate and have all the trendy mod cons. They talk the talk and make it sound interesting.

Now I can honestly say that I have never read anything on any of the general shooting forums that describe Full Bore shooting in these ways. If there is anything posted about Full Bore shooting it is generally a simple explanation of what Full Bore is by someone who knows someone that use to shoot it before he got too old.

Full Bore is simply not pushed by their own shooters in the popular media. This is to their detriment.

Now F-Class shooters can learn something from this! What we must do is get out into the popular Forums and sell the sport as an exciting and challenging shooting activity. When you have had a good day out shooting F-Class, get onto one of the forums and give a range report on how the day went and how great it was. I’m not talking about bragging about how well you won etc. I’m talking about getting onto the forum and telling the other shooters how much fun you had and how challenging it was.

If enough switched on and tech savvy shooters did this often enough, it would help a great deal to raise the profile and popularity of the sport of F-Class.

flatlina
Posts: 198
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:38 pm
Location: Darwin NT

#68 Postby flatlina » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:52 pm

.
Bruce I don't comprehend some of what you say re the killing all the time. Can you explain to me the phrase " stocks totally unsuited to killing people use " . I have quite few rifles with mags that vary in capacity from 3 to 30, plus shotguns that hold 2 to 15 but the most rifles I have of one kind are single shot ones. I use a Savage 10FP with a 10 shot mag kit for F class. It is scary black as is the NF 12 to 42 on it. I tried to buy a Barnard that was for sale on here this week but missed out. As far as some of the rifles not having good optics I beg to differ as the ones I see at our range have very high end scopes for the most part. The ones that don't have usually been fed bullshit by the local gunshop and sold what they had. A little talk and showing them another option usually helps them. There is no conspiracy to take over NRAA, it is about growing the shooting sports.

Regards
john bellman

MCLE
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:08 am
Location: Melbourne

#69 Postby MCLE » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:57 pm

I am new to this forum and to Fclass.On a whim l decided to try fclass one day a little over two years ago and liked it I was made feel welcome and have made some good friends.But and there's always a but I don't have a Fclass rifle I never have had one ( one day l will) l have turned up to comps with some of my tactical rifles eg Accurisy International AE MK ll Accurisy International AW a Tubb 2000 and a DTA SRS I have even won a couple of ranges with them now they are as far removed from traditional style Fclass rifles as you can get..The few negative comments that l have received haven't come from Fclass shooters they have in the most part come from the full bore guys and I have found this interesting as we don't shoot against each other but the attitudes of the traditional guys may be turning some new shooters away?.I have fun with what l have and this is what it is all about.We need to reach out and encourage other shooters to our sport even if it means we have to change the way we do things so be it.One thing that has been pointed out to me by younger shooters is that if they put a Saturday aside to go shooting the thought of driving for x amount of time to shoot 24 shots turns them off.Maybe we need to shake up the way we do things a little or our sport may suffer a decline that will be hard to turn around.just a thought .

Sam Walker
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:19 pm
Location: Nhulunbuy, in the awesome NT

#70 Postby Sam Walker » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:39 am

One thing just about any shooter can do, regardless of what flavour of rifle you like, is to offer the genuinely interested newcomers a shot ! It's quite intimidating to turn up to a range for the first time, with little or no knowledge of how to get into the sport. Being noticed, and welcomed will make a big difference to the potential new shooter, and they usually are very pleased to have a go. I've done this a few times, only once at an F Class shoot when the opportunity came up - I just said to them, if you buy a packet of ammo (I had none spare) you can shoot my rifle. So father and son got 10 rounds each away, at 800m and absolutely loved it. Due to my work roster I couldn't attend very often, was not a member and soon after that moved interstate, so I don't know if they took up F Class or not but at least they got a taste of it, rather than just watching.
I'll always have a bit of spare ammo when I go to my local (SSAA) range and if there are interested visitors, I chat to them and as long as I feel comfortable with them, offer them the chance to have a few shots. Under my close supervision, and have yet to have any issue with doing so.
Sam

bruce moulds
Posts: 2255
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

#71 Postby bruce moulds » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:43 am

john,
in answer to your question re stocks that look like the are meant for killing, i suggest you go to such websites as desert tactical arms.
not only do the rifles look like machines designed for warfare and the killing of humans, but the image of what you can be if you own one of these rifles is strongly portrayed.
we should question the right of a person, who regards such image promotion positively, to own a firearm. some companies offer baseball caps with rifles. dta seems to offer a balaklava.
this is the opposite of a modern 300 metre, smallbore,palma, or fclass rifle image.
now is the time for us to promote what we are wherever we can, while distancing ourselves from the dtr image where it counts, with politicians, police firearms branches, and the public.
if we need other disciplines to keep our ranges busy, there are plenty out there, and there are even more people out there who just want to plink.
opening ranges to plinkers could be the best money earner of all.
keep safe,
bruce moulds.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

IanP
Posts: 1193
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:30 am
Location: Adelaide

#72 Postby IanP » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:09 am

Bruce,

What are you doing right now or plan to do in the future to advance F-Class?

Talking down tactical rifles is not helping advance F-Class its just expressing your personal point of view. Your entitled to your personal point of view and I respect that. The problem is that you repeat the same slur onto tactical rifle users, time and time again.

You have voiced your personal disapproval of tactical rifles and shooters ad nauseam. Perhaps we could disallow shooters with tattoos and who are smokers for bringing our sport into disrepute by not conforming to someones perceived standard.

I ask you again, what are you doing to help advance F-Class apart from causing a few sparks on this forum. What constructive contribution have you made to F-Class recently that we can all learn from and aspire to be like and replicate?????

Ian

bruce moulds
Posts: 2255
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

#73 Postby bruce moulds » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:18 am

ian,
those who are doing things to advance fclass in s.a. know what i am doing, what i have done, and will do.
if you were part of something positive here you would see it yourself.
you obviously cannot understand the point i have been trying to make, which is that tactic/prac will be the undoing of fclass, not its saviour, and that while blindly following the prac/tac path, it is so easy to fail to see better options.
obviously i have a greater love for my sport than you. i would like to keep doing it.
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

IanP
Posts: 1193
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:30 am
Location: Adelaide

#74 Postby IanP » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:15 am

A little humour and a metaphor may help the situation! This story is fictional and any resemblance between real people and clubs is only coincidental.

This is a story of obsession and fixation of a car club member. This story is about one club member's fixation on black cars and how this grew to an obsession that these cars would be the downfall of his Blue Car and his White Car Club competitions.

The Black Car Club started out innocently enough but its numbers were growing and it now wanted to be able to compete in motorkhanas with the Blue and White Car Clubs. Most members welcomed the Black Cars into the competition as numbers were dwindling and the Black Car members really knew how to drive their cars well.

The member, Spruce Yeast was his name, knew that all black cars were derived from Mafia staff cars and the public would be upset and frightened to see them in his beloved motorkhanas. He knew this to be a fact, that killers and murderer's drove black cars and nothing could sway him from his opinion.

Luckily for the Blue and White Car Clubs, the majority of the members knew that these cars came fitted with an engine and four wheels just the same as their cars had. The majority of the members also realised that the Black Cars were built to the relevant Australian Standard and were registered and insured and that their drivers were all licensed. In short the only real difference was in the eyes of one vocal member!


Ian
Last edited by IanP on Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AlanF
Posts: 6751
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Location: Maffra, Vic

#75 Postby AlanF » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:31 am

Ian,

To be fair, Bruce has a concern more about public perception than about the lethal capabilities of the equipment. Let's face it, public perception is important. Most shooting sports try to publicise the softer side of their sport for this reason. Have a look through most shooting publications and see how much young girls are over-represented in the pictures. The current debate in the US will probably result in better public awareness of the difference in capabilities between different types of equipment. We shouldn't let that restrict us completely but it needs to be considered if equipment rules are relaxed.

Alan :D


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