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We want to hear what your club is doing to bring in new members. Tell us what works, and give credit to those who are making the effort.

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bruce moulds
Posts: 2370
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

#46 Postby bruce moulds » Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:15 pm

dave,
if we are thinking out of the square, we should have it all in the mix.
in fact single shots and muzzle loaders were probably far more involved in carnage than lever actions.
what we have to worry about today is the perceptions of current voters and politicians.
if for example you look at the lapua website, they have 3 kinds of ammunition, hunting, tactical, and sporting.
international disciplines tend to gather under the heading of sporting as a means of differentiating from the other 2.
somewhere in the olympic charter is wording about sports under their umbrella having to be peaceful, as there is in the commonwealth games.
ftr is defined as f target rifle, even though there are some who would wish otherwise. this is for the same reason.
now is the time our movement should be making itself known to legislators, the public and police groups that we are sporting, as opposed to tactical, and that our equipment is as far from killing design as firearms can be, because we are only interested in hitting small targets made of paper as opposed to killing people.
this is where alan's comments re pimping are relevent. a blue and yellow single shot that can only really be fired from a rest is far less threatening than an extended mag, picatinny covered black gun.
keep safe,
bruce moulds.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880
http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

10FPAT
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:11 am
Location: S.A.

#47 Postby 10FPAT » Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:45 pm

Barry Davies wrote:10FPAT,
Your description of what you consider would be the most interesting sounds very much like the NRAA discipline of Field class where they shoot over 1,2and 300yards in three positions ie prone, kneeling and standing.
Bipods are not used of course which makes the discipline rather difficult.
Time is of the escence.
Why does this not appeal? Is it too difficult or what?
All the attributes you mention are certainly required, probably moreso as you cannot use a bipod.


Thats interesting Barry,
I have seen it mentioned in the SSR's but have never seen it in action or heard of it being promoted at ranges in SA at least, sounds like it would be a great way of getting those with hunting rifles on the range.

It certainly would appeal to me would be great to have a go with my 22.250, .308 or .300 Win Mag hunting rifles.

Definitley not too difficult in fact I shoot a similar match over the same distances at SSAA Para combined service match with an open sighted Mauser in .308.


10FPAT

bsouthernau
Posts: 611
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:31 pm

#48 Postby bsouthernau » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:40 pm

10FPAT wrote:
It certainly would appeal to me would be great to have a go with my 22.250, .308 or .300 Win Mag hunting rifles.



Far be it from me to be a wet blanket on fun but do they have 5-shot mags? The SSAA version of this only requires 3 rounds from the mag which accommodates almost any hunting rifle.

Barry

mike H
Posts: 545
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 5:34 pm
Location: JUNEE NSW

#49 Postby mike H » Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:38 pm

10FPAT wrote:
Barry Davies wrote:10FPAT,
Your description of what you consider would be the most interesting sounds very much like the NRAA discipline of Field class where they shoot over 1,2and 300yards in three positions ie prone, kneeling and standing.
Bipods are not used of course which makes the discipline rather difficult.
Time is of the escence.
Why does this not appeal? Is it too difficult or what?
All the attributes you mention are certainly required, probably moreso as you cannot use a bipod.


Thats interesting Barry,
I have seen it mentioned in the SSR's but have never seen it in action or heard of it being promoted at ranges in SA at least, sounds like it would be a great way of getting those with hunting rifles on the range.

It certainly would appeal to me would be great to have a go with my 22.250, .308 or .300 Win Mag hunting rifles.

Definitley not too difficult in fact I shoot a similar match over the same distances at SSAA Para combined service match with an open sighted Mauser in .308.


10FPAT


The NRAA field rifle has a centrefire match to 300 yards/metres and a .22 rimfire match to 100 yards/90 metres. It is good fun and challenging to shoot,I have shot at a couple of championships at Lithgow,NSW,only that I am committed to Match Rifle and F/TR,I haven`t followed it up.It is a skill dependent match and the most basic hunting rifles are competetive.Like all things it takes someone to get it going.
Mike.

Brian
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:52 pm

#50 Postby Brian » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:51 am

I wonder if you really think that the anti gunners will care about the difference between a blue & yellow single shot & anything else ? I thought they did not like firearms regardless of the type & were indeed colour blind to any sort of un emotional discussion about firearms.

bruce moulds wrote:dave,
if we are thinking out of the square, we should have it all in the mix.
in fact single shots and muzzle loaders were probably far more involved in carnage than lever actions.
what we have to worry about today is the perceptions of current voters and politicians.
if for example you look at the lapua website, they have 3 kinds of ammunition, hunting, tactical, and sporting.
international disciplines tend to gather under the heading of sporting as a means of differentiating from the other 2.
somewhere in the olympic charter is wording about sports under their umbrella having to be peaceful, as there is in the commonwealth games.
ftr is defined as f target rifle, even though there are some who would wish otherwise. this is for the same reason.
now is the time our movement should be making itself known to legislators, the public and police groups that we are sporting, as opposed to tactical, and that our equipment is as far from killing design as firearms can be, because we are only interested in hitting small targets made of paper as opposed to killing people.
this is where alan's comments re pimping are relevent. a blue and yellow single shot that can only really be fired from a rest is far less threatening than an extended mag, picatinny covered black gun.
keep safe,
bruce moulds.

DaveMc
Posts: 1429
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:33 pm

#51 Postby DaveMc » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:47 am

Indeed Brian,
When discussing what I do as a sport with the general "non shooting" public and mention we shoot at targets 5 inches round at 1000 yards almost everyone says "you could hit someone in the head at that range". I try and explain - no: we have large, heavy, single shot rifles and actively point out that rifles are for target shooting but they just look at me and say what does that matter if you are lieing down at 1000 yards???

There is no black and white line - only grey.

You may be able to convince the law makers for a while but not the general public.


Similarly stereotyping all people that own tactical rifles as paramilitary is crazy. 90% of people I know that own them do not have any intention of shooting or training at "man - like" targets. They want to be able to go out, range a target, adjust for elevation and windage and have a go at hitting it. This is quite a fun (sporting) arm of our shooting family.
Those that are actually misguided are far better off being in a club where they can see responsible, mature shooters get a solid foundation and training than going home, brewing and reading stuff on the internet!!!

United we stand, divided we fall.

Bigdog
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:38 am

#52 Postby Bigdog » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:51 pm

Yes United we stand divided we fall is how it should be..................................but to the casual observer,and also the not so casual it would appear divided we stand united we fall.
The sooner people start realizing that the anti's dont discriminate black,white or brindle coloured rifles the better it could possibly be.
Stand united and dont give an inch.

bruce moulds
Posts: 2370
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

#53 Postby bruce moulds » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:46 pm

brian, dave and bigdog,
outwardlywhat you say makes sense at a cursory glance.
idealistically it sounds fantastic being united and having the strength to withstand an onslought.
those of us who were around in johnny hitlers attack know otherwise.
the one thing that had a chance to survive was olympic and commonwealth games disciplines. he even allowed a semi auto shotgun for a particular olympic discipline. i come back to their descriptions of peaceful uses.
we have no right to keep and bear arms here, which is why numbers will not help us.
tha prac tac guys would do well to come our way, rather than the opposite.
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

flatlina
Posts: 200
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:38 pm
Location: Darwin NT

#54 Postby flatlina » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:22 pm

bruce moulds wrote:brian, dave and bigdog,
outwardlywhat you say makes sense at a cursory glance.
idealistically it sounds fantastic being united and having the strength to withstand an onslought.
those of us who were around in johnny hitlers attack know otherwise.
the one thing that had a chance to survive was olympic and commonwealth games disciplines. he even allowed a semi auto shotgun for a particular olympic discipline. i come back to their descriptions of peaceful uses.
we have no right to keep and bear arms here, which is why numbers will not help us.
tha prac tac guys would do well to come our way, rather than the opposite.
keep safe,
bruce.


Sometimes I get the feeling that we're ](*,) . Using Com & Olympic games as a reason that you still have your chosen firearm is very feeble. After 96 there was still a lot of rifles around that had nothing to do with these sports. AAMF I can still use a semi/pump shotgun to shoot IPSC. Certain Orgs bailed out on the general shooting population and were very blinkered in their approach. The same thing happened in 2003 with the handguns. F*** you jack I'm OK. Divide and conquer is the way it works. Pick off certain areas. The antis will never be satisfied , even if all the firearms are gone . They will just look for something else to attack, bullbars and 4WD's in the city etc.

bruce moulds
Posts: 2370
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

#55 Postby bruce moulds » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:31 pm

flatlina,
you need to learn the new rules.
we will all go in the end for sure.
if we do it right we will be amongst the last rather than the first
if we just do what we want, as opposed to what we should we will get what we deserve.
the dinosaurs became extinct and tac/prac will just as surely do so. let's not go down with them. who knows, we might survive the dinosaur age as did the birds.
keep safe,
bruce moulds.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

Dave P
Posts: 153
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:10 am
Location: Hervey Bay Qld

#56 Postby Dave P » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:02 pm

bruce moulds wrote:flatlina,
you need to learn the new rules.
we will all go in the end for sure.
if we do it right we will be amongst the last rather than the first
if we just do what we want, as opposed to what we should we will get what we deserve.
the dinosaurs became extinct and tac/prac will just as surely do so. let's not go down with them. who knows, we might survive the dinosaur age as did the birds.
keep safe,
bruce moulds.


Seriously why dont we all just sell our gear now while some still think their is hope and wil pay for it. Close the ranges and devote ourselves to some worthwhile sport with a future.
Holding on at the expense of all others with succes being measured as being the last to be ousted with no hope of salvation is very depressing to say the least.
I have to say Bruce that your stance is most disturbing and defeatist to and brings to mind a quote

“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” – Samuel Adams

I dont mean to be offensive Bruce and hope that I am not but if we are to simply fade away as you say we will, should we not just go the way of extinction voluntarily now and not waste everyones time and effort.

bruce moulds
Posts: 2370
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

#57 Postby bruce moulds » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:52 pm

dave,
no offence taken, but pragmatism will go with survival.
while everyone is worring about trying to sneak prac/tac into fclass, under the guise of saving our ranges, they are not putting their heads in the "how do we promote fclass" place.
this in itself tells us how much these people care about fclass.
the other thing these people overlook is that there are plenty of more peaceul disciplines we could persue, but the most vocal are prac/tac.
if one discipline is currently successful, it is 3p rimfire, but all we har is prac/tac.
one could be forgiven for thinking this is a bit of a prac/tac campaign.
let's hope that if they get in they do not pull us down to the extinction they are surely doomed to.
the assumption that fclass is history is at the moment far from correct. in most places it is slowly going ahead, and even approaching critical mass.
keep safe,
bruce moulds.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

TOM
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:35 am

#58 Postby TOM » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:12 pm

Whats so wrong with what we do now anyway? I get the impression from some of you blokes that if what we do doesn't appeal to every single person we must change it! What we have is bloody good stuff, if it doesn't appeal to everyone, fine, they have their ideals an ours are pretty well cemented in a class/classes that operate superbly wordwide, even if there are small variations in domestic rules.

Move on an enjoy what you have, before you stuff it up!

DaveMc
Posts: 1429
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:33 pm

#59 Postby DaveMc » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:01 pm

Tom - that is definitely not the case. We are not asking at all to change F class what these discussions are about is to help "GROW" f class. Where are the most likely candidates for this discipline likely to come from?? Not the general public but other areas of the shooting community. 3P and field class are great potential pools. Encouraging the general shooting community to participate in these style of competitions is a potential path into F class. So is Practical/Tactical or whatever you want to call it. Basically guys with long range bipod style rifles learning to read wind, range targets and hit them. These shooters enjoy many of the same challenges we do and it is highly likely some will slide over into our sport (and many do - especially if not met by a wall of rejection).

The only change we need is to cut racism out of our sport!

bruce moulds
Posts: 2370
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

#60 Postby bruce moulds » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:11 pm

dave,
if the prac/tac guys wanted to shoot fclass, they would already be doing so.
they have a completely different agenda, which prioritizes repeat shots , different targets than we use, sights unsuitable for best performance in our job, andseek a military/paramilitary image.
all this over long range accuracy.
they love by a different lore in a different culture.
our sport can stand on its own as tom says, and can grow if we put the effort into it.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM


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