Comments from another website

We want to hear what your club is doing to bring in new members. Tell us what works, and give credit to those who are making the effort.

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Brad Y
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Comments from another website

#1 Postby Brad Y » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:53 am

I posted up a heap of questions for polls on another forum- thought I would share them. There seems to be some good points, some biased, some negative. I have drawn my own opinions of it but not going to share them here. IVe also deleted names where I see them so as to not incriminate anyone.

1. Do you participate in regular, formal target shooting competition of any kind?

Please answer as per the poll answers and if willing list the discipline.

This is a bit of an effort to look at membership in the F Class and Target Rifle sports and if the sports can be made more attractive to prospective shooters. Im going to put a few more polls up about different points as well.


It is great that you (and a couple of others) are trying to sort the decline of the NRAA out. The problem is and always has been that the majority(unfortanately) or NRAA members wish to remain elite in their little stronghold.
They actively fight change and want everything to be the same as it was 50 years ago.
You want to expand look at whats lacking in the target world in Australia and look at the range facilities you have ie SSAA has mainly short ranges NRAA has lots of ranges up to 1000yds.
Adopt 600yd Benchrest into the SSR's like you did the 1000yd BR, let me use my wind flags as allowed in the SSR's without having them removed because someone complained about unfair advantage ... unfair advantage is in every bit of equipment not just flags if you want a level playing field give everyone club guns and that NRAA Winchester factory ammo or get over the whole unfair advantage bullshit.
Introduce tactical rifle competitions over long ranges (not just F Class but actual Tactical rifle comp's designed for Tactical rifles.
Not having a crack at you I do hope you can get the NRAA to change but I doubt you will have any success based on many years experience.
Good luck getting anywhere with the NRAA.


I agree with what has said but I will add some of my own observations.

We get lots of new people both young and old contacting us to come and try shooting. The stick around for a bit. Some sign up for the long haul.

1. Many struggle with work hours. Many have to work Saturday mornings. This is the the biggest issue.

2. Many of the old guys force the new people to shoot in competition and abide strictly to the procedural rules of a specific class. Most new people want to shoot for fun and relaxation and have no interest in shooting competition.

Combining 1 and 2 it's important that clubs allow people to step away from the strict shooting order system where everyone has to have their first shoot before starting on the second detail. Our club has people turn up and shoot in multiple groups of just 2 or 3 without removing their gear from the mound between strings. In a world where people can be pressed for time we have shooters who can turn up and shoot early and shooters who can turn up and shoot late and the two never cross paths because by the time the late shooter arrives the early shooter has packed up and left. It offends many outside of the club but it works and we have good member participation because of it.

3. The existing formal competition rules are not fun for beginners. More importantly they are not easy for beginners.
For example a typical club championship would consist of 2 scores at each of the various ranges present on a range. So for a range with say 300, 500, 600, 700 and 800 that's 10 shoots. Making allowance for rain cancellations, family events, hunting, and needing to get in another score to replace a shocker they had at one of the other ranges means that come the end of the year the new shooters can really be struggling to fill a card in the championship. Dropping the number of shoots can make it easier to participate fully without lowering the quality of the championship.

4. Many of the old guys are control freaks who have a very poor social understanding of the new shooters and who object quite dramatically to being questioned. Combining the younger generations with these old guys results in a bad experience for the newcomers.

5. Most of the old guys have a very poor understanding of modern firearms and many have an outright hatred for calibres that aren't 308's. Many new people's first exposure is a website or a magazine outlining firearms that aren't 308's; firearms that are either scoped and black or scoped, sleek and shiny or even simply hunting rifles. It's a shock to arrive at the range and have the rifle you've been eyeing off get maligned not because it's cannot do the job but because it's not a 308.

6. Many NRAA disciplines and shooters can be easily be perceived as being dangerous (and some genuinely are). When you consider the scenario of shooters coming over from the SSAA it's a whole different world when it comes to firearms handling behind the firing line. First impressions count especially in a world where many newcomers are brought up to fear firearms by the media. To arrive at a range and see rifles lying everywhere can be a bit of a shock. Many shooters especially hunters will choose not to be around people that they personally consider to be dangerous. This needs to be managed.

7. The progression from new shooter to OPM competitor can take many years (if ever) when left to the new shooter to decide for themselves. Forcing them into competition puts them out the door very quickly.

In general shooting thrives when it's Easy, Fun and Accommodating. In a world where people have so many options that are all easier and more fun the NRAA really needs to accept that they're doing it wrong by being so terribly formal.
We don't have to alter the core aspects of the disciplines to change that either. We just need to change the procedures and attitudes at club level in order to make peoples Saturday afternoons more pleasurable and rewarding.

In the end though the source of this sudden quest for information falls into the old guys category mentioned so much above. The hatred of tactical rifles by that group, the strict adherence to the formalities of competition, the inability to allow people to question their attitudes to controlling the sport mean that this information will go nowhere.


Another point. It's important for clubs to LISTEN to the people coming through their door. The entire NRAA club structure revolves around telling people what to do instead of asking them what they want to do. If you shut up and listen to your visitors you can find ways to keep them happy and keep them coming back.

I have a Remmie In a AIC stock with tac knob blah,blah. Everyone knows the kind. I joined up with a fullbore club not long ago.
When I uncovered the rifle from the bag, I got a WHOAW from someone behind me. Not a Whoaw as in nice gun, but as in that should'nt be on this range.
Never the less I still shoot this each time I go to the club. As someone mentioned above, It's the oldies who don't like Tac rifles. Some people believe that these rifles bring unwarranted attention to the clubs. They believe it could bring about the demise of the club.

The NRAA won't change. This has to start at club level. All the clubs have to do is look at one of the forums, and see how many people there are out there just dying to shoot long range, with Tac rifles. Just by tapping into this small resource they will get a few new members. They don't even have to schedule a shoot every week, it can be done once a month. But I'm dreaming.


A good example is the Fox shoot run at Batemans Bay SSAA. The purpose is to attract people to long range competition in a comfortable and casual surrounding. The club run it once a month, its shot at 3 ranges which rotate each month between rimfire 100m, centrefire 200, 300 & 500m. You dont have to shoot all the yardages so you can test the waters as you feel comfortable to do so. Each month the award points for placings overall and use these in a shooter of the year type competition. They also have best score and group targets displayed in the club house for the year.
Its sounds silly but it satrted with about 4 shooters last I went they had around 15 or so most shooting every month.
NRAA ranges could easily run tactical matches (properly designed matches for tac rifles) on Sundays or Saturday morning in some cases summer evenings ie Wednesday nite could be an open comp day range runs from 4pm till dark. I know that many would shoot then because they cant make it on weekends.
None of this is hard and the old excuse about insurance will get thrown up but SSAA members are insured anywhere they are legally taking part in shooting even on an NRAA range so thats rubbish.

As sad as it sounds the membership of many NRAA clubs have created this problem with their poor attitude to anyone who doesnt shoot TR or prone, just mention Benchrest around most of those old NRAA boys and see the reaction you get. Sadly most also dont know what they are talking about and could learn a lot from observing other disciplines.

Fix the facilities (ie clubhouses my dog kennels are more comfortable than a lot of NRAA club houses) put up some shade covers, clean the toilets (ladies shoot to you know) most of all listen to the people, see what shooters want, whats not being serviced by SSAA or other groups and target those areas.
As horrific as it may seem tac rifle is obvious they feel ignored by SSAA, there are shitloads of them, they want to shoot long range, hell lots of them are even 308's ...if you get them to the range shooting tac rifle I garuntee some will have a crack at F Class sooner or later. Have an inter club shoot to encourage it F Class Vs Tac rifle

As I said good luck getting anything more than hot air out of most NRAA members though


Let me play the Devils Advocate for a moment, and please understand what I mean by this, I am taking a contrary view to stimulate discussion and provide input from "the other side". Oh and I am not a NRAA member and have only shot on a NRAA range once and found it a fun and welcoming experience.

The criticism leveled at the "old fuddy duddy's" who refuse to change and look down their noses at any shooting discipline other than their own seems to be a little over heated. It also seems to be a common complaint made by "young whipper snappers who are still wet behind the ears". I have heard both arguments, many times in many different settings. From rifle clubs, to bowling clubs, to rugby clubs, to surf clubs, to fire brigades, to amateur radio clubs, to, well you get the idea.

Every generation believes the previous ones have no idea and are stuck in their old fashioned ways.

Have you ever stopped to wonder why those who have been in any game for a long time want to continue do what they have always done?

Mostly it is habit. Habits formed by finding a sport or activity that they like and suits them and by having fun, over a long period.

Then some upstart wants to change everything and gets the dirts when the established membership won't let them change things willy nilly.

Next thing you know the "old fools" get their hackles up and do what they have done all their lives - dug in and defended what they believe in.

The obvious question is why do they get so defensive?

Well the simple answer is, it is "their club" and they are happy with the way the shoots are run and they enjoy themselves while doing it. They fear that they will lose out and no longer have their recreation and fun. They fear that they won't be competitive in new disciplines or they fear that they will not be able to afford to equip themselves with all the new fangled bling gear.

So what is the solution?

If you want change within these organisations you need to work with these guys not against them. You need to make sure that the new disciplines and ideas do not threaten or curtail their activities.

Finally you need to work from the inside, not come barging in wanting to disrupt things from the outside.

I hope this long winded and rambling essay is of assistance.


The comments you're responding too are not coming from young whipper snappers.

In a real world context you've actually missed the mark totally. In fact you've just reinforced the very points made by myself and others. You're actively defending the right to be old and cranky but that's what is actually killing the sport.

The issue is that NRAA disciplines are in decline.

The reasons for that are obvious to anyone that sticks their ego in the cupboard for a few minutes and looks at why they cannot get people to come and to stay.

Have a look at the thread on ozfclass. The solution to the problem there is the same sad old idea of creating a new competition discipline to cater for this great untapped market.

The simple premise they continually fail to grasp is that most of the modern day time poor people aren't the least bit interested in getting deeply involved in any sort of long term serious competition.

It's as simple as that.

The great untapped market for the NRAA is the shooter who just wants to come along and have the occasional long range plink.

It's not just our sport either. I grew up sailing. At any given Sunday we would have well over 100 boats on the water and a good 300+ sailors. 30 years later and that club is lucky to put 15 boats on the water. The reason being that people don't have the time on inclination these days to commit to such a demanding sport.

For any further comment from me just refer back to my initial post on this. There's no point me repeating myself. The solution is there. All that is needed is for people to let it happen.


I am over 50 and have shot NRAA in the past. The NRAA are in decline, NRAA ranges are closing or will soon clse due to lack of numbers. Some of the NRAA guys have seen this and are trying in thier own way to do something about it. Unfortunately they created the problem initially with the attitudes described above.
The shame of it is that we (shooters) will loose many ranges for no good reason other than the fear of change they have.
You mention much about helping them fit in, they dont need to change, they can continue shooting there Saturday arvo 2 relays over 5-6 hours but the ranges the own are unused for the other 6 days most weeks.
They need members but they want them to shoot TR or F Class they look down their nose at Tac rifles. I dont own one and never will but I would happily help them design and set up comps if it increases memberships and keeps ranges open. Thats the problem with these 'old guys' (there not all old either) they want members but on there terms. They can introduce other comps on days they dont use the range ie Saturday morning, Sunday, Weekday arvos but they dont want to let anyone else in becuase they may take over.
The fact is that in most cases the local SSAA branch could simply have its membership join the NRAA and come the next AGM its all over as the SSAA guys will out vote the traditionalists ... thats a sad thing but it will happen sooner or later somewhere. Far better to open the door and invite people in than wait for the mob with the pitchforks to burn the door down.
Anything that keeps ranges open is positive and that is hard for some but thats life.


I have to say I rarely shoot NRAA but my experiences must be vastly different to most.
In my experience I have yet to see anyone that has stepped up to the plate and is willing to organise and run a different comp that isn't going to effect the day to day activities refused outright.
I think the biggest problem is the majority who want to shoot something different aren't prepaired to put in the time and effort themselves to organise and run it. They want someone else to do it for them, schedual it at at time that suits them and don't want to pay for it.

Its not always the case, a few of the local blokes here decided they would like to have a play at 500m fly, came up with a way to shoot it and comply with the range regulations, orgainised it etc and had a succesful day.


I am not going to debate the worth of each individual club ... obviously some clubs are more flexible ... Interesting to note that issues like insurance are ignored when it suits. NRAA insurance only covers matches approved in the SSR's so a Fly shoot was uninsured unless SSAA members were involved and then only they were insured.
The fact remains that NRAA numbers are falling TR is on life support and F Class is slipping ... why is that when for example Fly and to a degree 1000yd BR have grown in numbers over the last few years and the prevelance of groups trying to shoot long range with tactical rifles has expanded with amazing speed. These are all long range shooting fields why is one group dying while others grow???????
The facts are that across the course the NRAA clubs have done themselves and shooters a disservice by not moving with the times. If your not moving forward your going backwards you know. The NRAA is not the service rifle group it was originally and has not been for many years. Too long they have had there heads in the sand in the ivory towers and now the wolf is at the gate its an issue. The great soution is to at this stage to invent a new F class sporter comp for all the hunters.
They miss the point that people are not interested in the style of shooting and that shortening the distance and barring fast twist factory rifles to make it more sporting is negative. Interseting that a simple rule like that will rule out most tactical rifles, the very group most likely to save them.
Seriously these people are lost.


What style of target shooting interests you most?

1. Prone
2. Sitting/standing
3. Bench
4. Moving target
5. Snap shooting
6. All of the above


I would like to see practical shooting events such as the Steel Safari.

They already shoot a service type event with tac rifles in the ACT. Imagine the turn out to one of these events in each State and Territory.

Forget that run it every 2nd Sunday across most NRAA ranges and you will soon have it running at State and National levels for competition and the numbers are there to do it in a short time ie 2-3yrs at most.

Totally keen to see practical rifle events. target shooting gets boring.

I am unsure of insurance problems, but a fun proper type practical match has the potential to be huge very quickly. Shot from obsticals i.e. roof top scenario, from out of a wrecked car, stuff like that! The amount of practical/tactical rifles out there is huge, and for a serious match to suit these I think it could be great!

300WM and myself would be happy to attend.

Another question you should ask is if people want to shoot more when they attend matches. I know myself, I loved the long range BR, but if I drive distance, pay for accommodation, food, range fees... I want to shoot lots. For instance 500m Fly, shoot 10 scoring shots, and maybe have 4 sighters over a 10minute time period. A lot more shooting without incurring a massive increase in time with target changes etc...


If something like varmint silhouette was to get up and running I'd be keen. But at that point of competition where it becomes an equipment race, the average family bloke has to bow out ... which is a shame.

I disagree. Its no different to any of the existing competitions. Money spent on 'getting an edge' on the competition hasn't changed since Adam was a boy, competition is still competition. Skill and equipment is where it is at if you want to win. However you can still compete for the fun of it and not spend the big bucks, just don't expect to be on the winners podium.

IPSC members from my club used to host a shot on a 7000 acre farm over a few long weekends of the year so rifles and shot guns would get a good run. The events basically consisted of;

long range shoot. 5-7 IPSC target sized steel plates with shock sensors at ranges of 150m to 750m+, 18-21 rounds depending on number of targets, a sequence of engagement ie closest to farthest and back and number of shots each target and usually a 2 minute time limit which made you really shoot. sounds easy? No way, best scores were 18/20 hits and I did it once with my 222 hunting rifle and a 6 power scope. This style of shooting never really made it an arms race because of the time limit gave you little chance of dialing in each distance, holding off worked just as well and was quicker.

Other events were gongs which was a speed shoot. hit them all and record your time to complete.

others were IPSC courses designed to use all types of rifles. even had a 22lr rabbit stage with 2" steel plates.

shotgun stages were a pig run and clays


What can you afford to pay on a weekly basis for ammo and range fees?

Now this vote was a bit tricky. I voted $20-$30 weekly. If you were to buy NRAA ammo, they go for $22 a box. Everyone will buy 2 boxes to see them through the shoot, 2 sighters and 10 scoring shots, plus $12 range fee. This costs $56 for a shoot on a weekend, initially. There after, only $34 for the next 4 weeks. Those rounds left over from sighters,16 rds.

Now, how many people here reload and buy Bergers, Lapua, Sierra projies? To shoot on a weekly basis probably comes out much higher.

For me I can only attend every 2 or 3 weeks. Hence my vote.

bruce moulds
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#2 Postby bruce moulds » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:26 am

asking questions is always a good thing, but what the masses want is not always what is good for us.
a good example of this is the tac guys who want to shoot long range.
while we want more shooters, we do not want the type of firearms that by association will cause our current equipment to be banned.
internationally, the shooting sports are moving in 2 directions. away from the killing of human beings, and towards the same.
at the same time the public and politicians are being repulsed from firearms by mass shootings and warfare.
the disciplines that distance themselves from the image of killing people have more chance of lasting longer.
even ftr is so named to align itself with "sport" as opposed to killing. ftarget rifle.
when the next round of bans come around, it would serve the nraa well to have distanced itself from killing publically and politically. they have come a long way since being associated with the military, and here is an opportunity to move further in the right direction for the maintainance of some firearms ownership.
we must maintain and build the image of sport as the non shooting public sees it.
avoiding tac will not be the end of us.
keep safe,
bruce moulds.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880
http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

higginsdj
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Re: Comments from another website

#3 Postby higginsdj » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:04 pm

Brad Y wrote:2. Many of the old guys force the new people to shoot in competition and abide strictly to the procedural rules of a specific class. Most new people want to shoot for fun and relaxation and have no interest in shooting competition.


Ummm - perhaps people should revisit the valid reasons for possessing a firearms license! Shooting for fun is not a valid reason.

Cheers

David

bruce moulds
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#4 Postby bruce moulds » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:22 pm

most of the comments from the other website suggest a total lack of knowledge re nraa or any other disciplines.
when these people gain more experience matters such as how things have to work in the real world, their comments might reflect more reality.
fclass people used to say a lot of that stuff about tr, but as time has gone on we have learned that tr guys started us, and a lot of the mysteries surrounding shooting have a reason.
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

ecomeat
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#5 Postby ecomeat » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:02 pm

Brad,
Well done mate, and thanks for taking the time and effort to coordinate all of the answers. You have obviously put a considerable amount of work into it
Whilst it mightn't be what everyone wants to hear, it IS valuable, current feedback from everyday shooters who are spending money most weeks.
Whilst I don't necessarily agree with Bruce re the risks associated with being seen to be part of the same "sports image" as tactical type rifles, I can see where he is coming from.
But what I am certain of in my own mind, is that the wussy, urban dwelling, latte sipping Greens voter who hates all guns, will be just as terrified of any of the tube gun styles, skeletonised stocks etc that are already a fairly common part of T/R, as they will be of any "black tactical" styles of rifle. I simply don't see how we can hold hands weekly with Tube gun/skeletonised stock brigade on the mound, but turn our backs on the thousands of well paid shooters who are heading down the "tactical" track with the gear that they are buying, just because we are worried that some cockhead might associate "us" with "them". We are already associated by virtue of being legal, licensed firearm owners.

I confess that I don't have any facts and figures, but from speaking to shooters in general, following a few blogs and reading current magazines, I would think that tactical is probably THE fastest growing type of "shooting", and probably by a long way .
They have Shooters Licenses, reasonable incomes, a lot of them have some very fancy rifles, and apparently a great desire to shoot at 1000 yards or more, so in my view of the world they make a great target to pursue as potential F Classers. Just like any group of people, there would be people we certainly wouldnt want as F Classers. There would be some gung-ho types that certainly could damage our image, but I am fairly confident that range protocols and discipline will easily weed them out. Lot of the rest of them just might get addicted to F Class just like all of "us".
Rgds
Tony
Extreme accuracy and precision shooting at long range can be a very addictive pastime.

johnk
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#6 Postby johnk » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:03 am

The problem that will take some resolution here, as they're finding in the States is that TR/Palma/F class disciplines mandate no muzzle brakes & Tactical shooters need/demand them, for understandable reasons on each side. We are concerned about the noise & dust directed to adjacent shooters while tactical rifle users need to moderate the cruel recoil that comes from needing to setting off heavy loads through overly (by our experience) short barrels to get the necessary performance for greater distances.

This is not a criticism of the tactical rifle per se. It has been built to a set of rules that are incompatible with ours, nothing more or less.

ecomeat
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#7 Postby ecomeat » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:14 am

John,
I am 100% supportive of "no muzzle breaks" being enforced . I had a crack at 1000 yd benchrest about 15 months ago, and a guy let off a 300 something or other with a muzzle break right beside me, just as I was adjusting my own ear protection. I wouldnt want any F Classer to have to put up with that level of discomfort !!
Muzzle breaks are probably a terrific thing if a shooter is solo in a 5000 acre paddock, but they sure dont belong on a mound beside people shooting F Class, TR etc.
Extreme accuracy and precision shooting at long range can be a very addictive pastime.

IanP
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#8 Postby IanP » Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:38 am

bruce moulds wrote:asking questions is always a good thing, but what the masses want is not always what is good for us.
a good example of this is the tac guys who want to shoot long range.
while we want more shooters, we do not want the type of firearms that by association will cause our current equipment to be banned.
internationally, the shooting sports are moving in 2 directions. away from the killing of human beings, and towards the same.
at the same time the public and politicians are being repulsed from firearms by mass shootings and warfare.
the disciplines that distance themselves from the image of killing people have more chance of lasting longer.
even ftr is so named to align itself with "sport" as opposed to killing. ftarget rifle.
when the next round of bans come around, it would serve the nraa well to have distanced itself from killing publically and politically. they have come a long way since being associated with the military, and here is an opportunity to move further in the right direction for the maintainance of some firearms ownership.
we must maintain and build the image of sport as the non shooting public sees it.
avoiding tac will not be the end of us.
keep safe,
bruce moulds.


Bruce, I welcome tactical style rifles in 223R and 308W complete with camo colours, just like my rifle I used for the Queens and for qualifying with the Australian F T/R team. Just because you have a personal dislike for these rifles, thankfully doesn't rule them out for use in F T/R or F-Open.

I dont know why you have this preoccupation of knocking tactical bolt action rifles, but it really doesn't do our image of a target rifle association any good. Tactical type bolt actions are generally the upper end of accurate sporting rifles and are preferred for long range target shooting or hunting.

Get over it! Your prejudiced view could well keep a lot of excellent shooters and prospective members away from our clubs simply because of your ridiculous view that they are weapons of mass murder. We got rid of the semi and fully automatic military weapons after Pt. Arthur was shot up by a lunatic. Owners of tactical bolt action rifles are similar minded people to me and I like them and welcome them into F-Class!!!!!!

Ian

Norm
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#9 Postby Norm » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:32 am

bruce moulds wrote: the nraa well to have distanced itself from killing publically and politically. they have come a long way since being associated with the military.
bruce moulds.


This is your view Bruce but obviously not the view of other shooters from the comments posted on other forums.
NRAA full bore shooting is seen by most shooters as a hang over from the ex-military shooters of years gone by.
The NRAA is and will for a long time yet be linked to its military past while it does not move with the times and embrace common sporting weight factory rifles on the mound.

Barry Davies
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#10 Postby Barry Davies » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:04 am

Is there something about sporting rifles that currently prevents them from being used in some disciplines under SSR's??
Barry

IanP
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#11 Postby IanP » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:12 am

Barry Davies wrote:Is there something about sporting rifles that currently prevents them from being used in some disciplines under SSR's??
Barry


Short answer Barry, is no they are ok with NRAA SSRs. Practically they may require an adapter to the forestock to use a 3" wide plate for a front rest or in some cases to fit a bipod. So long as they are bolt action with a removable bolt and loaded one case at a time all is well. Rules apply equally to target and sporting rifles and its up to the owner to ensure compliance.

Ian

Barry Davies
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#12 Postby Barry Davies » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:24 am

That being the case then why do not all those many owners of sporting rifles join us and partake of what we offer??

flatlina
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#13 Postby flatlina » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:32 am

IanP very well said . I can tell you that the majority of new shoters that come to our Range have "Tactical" type rifles. These are usually fitted with high end optics. To say that these rifles are no good beyond 300 m shows ignorance of the capabilities of rifles that are available today. The Savags, Tikkas etc with Varmint barrels are very accurate. As I live on a rifle range I get to see a lot of new shooters and I can tell you the growth will come from these types. A lot of them hunt as well as I do.
We have to remember that not that many years ago an Omark was considered radical against the .303 LE and then the Milenium etc with it's alloy stock was considered the same. A high end FB rifle these days is not that much different from a "Tactical" rifle , albeit a single shot.
We had enuf division in 96 when some organisations took the high road that it didn't affect them and the same happened in 2003 with the handguns. The reality is that the anti gunners want ALL firearms banned and they will chip away until they acheive this.

Regards
john

With regards to muzzlebrakes, if you adjust your muffs and get caught out it will be the same with or without. The design of the brakes is to stop dust kicking up. if they bother you just plug and use muffs. I have brakes on a few rifles and a couple of them actually direct the noise straight out. I use these on a couple of hunting/cull rifles. The Levang linear comp does this very well.

AlanF
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#14 Postby AlanF » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:20 pm

Thanks Brad and others.

As some of you have said, we may not want to hear it, but we probably need to.

I get the impression from some of the comments that tactical type rifles are the fastest growing type. But does that necessarily mean its the type of rifle that shooters would want to bring to NRAA ranges? My impression of tactical shooting as a sport (in the US), is that it requires variable terrain and a very big area, not unlike orienteering. Most NRAA ranges are long and narrow with templates which require shooting in a single direction, i.e. towards the range danger area.

We also have seen requests for a more casual approach i.e. move away from the two 10 shot shoots scenario. You might be surprised how many NRAA members would like to see this. I've been trying to insert some "testing and help" days into our calendar. Some clubs actually run this sort of format (i.e. no competition) every week. But at anything over 200yds you will need markers, who will need to be organised, which is normally done by the Range Officer, whose position I believe is justified, and should remain.

There's also this issue of muzzle brakes. They seem to be getting common on hunting rifles, and for that purpose they make sense, significantly improving the behaviour of light rifles in "energetic" calibres. I think its a very big ask to expect current NRAA members to accept muzzle brakes alongside them on the mound. Its one of those things that would be too bigger price to pay.

So looking at the above-mentioned aspects, how about something like this :

Allow tactical, have format-free (no competition) shooting, and allow muzzle brakes :D :D :D .....

BUT..... do it in a way which does not adversely affect the current membership.

Here's how it might be done :
  • Choose a time of the week other than the normal full bore shoot.
  • Decide on maximum calibre and type of action allowed (will normally be specified in Range Standing Orders or equivalent).
  • Ascertain what proportion of new members do not want muzzle brakes alongside them.
  • Run a controlled (for the purposes of safety and marker duty), but format-free shoot each week.
  • Designate some weeks "muzzle-brake free" in accordance with the proportion who want it.
  • Allow considerable flexibility in type of target, portable benches etc, as long as safety rules are observed.
  • Importantly, hand control over ASAP to people who want to be there on those days, which would require some of the new membership to step up.
  • Regarding the tactical/camo image, those existing members who don't like it will not need to be on the range at the same time. And any new members who don't like it are always welcome in TR/F-Class. :wink:

Norm
Posts: 834
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:21 pm
Location: Gippsland, Victoria

#15 Postby Norm » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:39 pm

Good post Alan,
Two things that I would like to ask.
1. Do you think that the 200 yard idea could be stretched to 300 yards without markers? I shoot at 300 yards and can see the bullet holes with both my scope and spotting scopes.

2. Could you not simply seperate the muzzle brake shooters from the non muzzle brake shooters in different relays? i.e. just let the muzzle brake shooters shoot before or after the non muzzle brake shooters rather than on different days.

P.S. I have shot under the Rosedale 1000 yard car port and the noise from the roof is similar to that from muzzle brake. :lol:


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