Sight picture / eagle eye,

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KHGS
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Re: Sight picture / eagle eye,

#16 Postby KHGS » Fri May 29, 2015 9:29 am

AlanA wrote:Just my 2 cents worth on TR sighting issues. I shot TR for 40+ years, 30 or so in North Qld. The following may help.

1) Make sure that the front ring is in perfect focus. The sighting radius is approx. 1 mtr and your optometrist should check this for you. For older shooters that need a lens or shooting glasses this may mean that the reading and distance vision are somewhat blurred but the 1.0 mtr focus is crystal clear.

2) The rear peep should be roughly 1.0 to 1.1 mm. Too big and your group will open up, too small and the sighting picture will be too dull. Once set I can't recall ever changing this no matter what the sighting conditions.

3) An eagle eye is almost essential these days. When they became legal I used a 0.3 for a while and then went to 0.5. I never went back. There are some negatives like greyer, slightly blurred aiming mark and any rifle shake is magnified. However the upside is that you have a bigger blot to aim at. Another plus is that it helps to see the target numbers at long range.

4) Ring sizes should be big enough to allow you to accurately centre the aiming mark even if it does look a bit grey and blurred. You need plenty of white around the aiming mark. Too small a ring might look good but generally it just doesn't work.

5) Filters can improve the picture. With bright light (sun) on the target a light brown filter works well. In dull light a yellow can improve the contrast between black and white.

6) The sighting process is to focus on a crystal clear foresight ring with a perhaps greyed and blurred aiming mark in the middle. All other things being correct, as long as your sight picture is consistent from shot to shot you will be amazed at the tight groups you can shoot.

Good shooting,


This advice is absolutely correct & agrees 100% with my findings over 40 years of T/R shooting. Most newer shooters use rings that are too small, these will often work O.K. in perfect conditions, but most definitely not in the long haul, if in doubt, go bigger. =D>
Keith H.

pjifl
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Re: Sight picture / eagle eye,

#17 Postby pjifl » Fri May 29, 2015 9:56 am

Expanding on the sighting distance to the foresight.

To image the foresight as clearly as possible, you may need a lens corresponding to any spectacles you wear (or a slight correcting lens) in the rearsight (or in shooting frames behind the rear sight).

If an optician tests you to prescribe this lens, make sure he understands that the lens should not be actually designed for the eye foresight distance but a little more.

This is because, when looking through a tiny peepsight, you have extra depth of field, and the lens design distance can be maybe 1.5 m before any blurring of the foresight can be detected while looking through the peep.

This small change will actually reduce the blurring of the target but still keep the foresight as sharp as the eye can detect.

Younger eyes of course simply accommodate to achieve this. Older eyes have a very limited range and lenses need to be accurately prescribed within narrow limits preferably by an optician who understands peep sight shooting.

The prescription depends of course on the state of the eye which can change during the day and with body hydration. It is a good idea to have a few tests done and average the results.
You definitely do not want the testing done after you have been doing much reading.

Eyes usually become more long sighted as you age. This may be a reason to choose a slightly smaller lens design distance thus allowing for some lengthening with ageing.

Peter Smith

RJNEILSEN
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Re: Sight picture / eagle eye,

#18 Postby RJNEILSEN » Fri May 29, 2015 3:36 pm

Josh,
My guess is your ring sizes are too small when using an eagle eye.

Personally I try have a ratio of aiming mark diameter to ring diameter of 50%. I don't frame the target anymore. Not sure why though.

Looks like this;

Image

For a 950mm sight radius, this is my ring size chart. It is the basis for what I first go down to shoot with. I then change rings if needed to suit the light conditions on the day.

Image

Attached is my spreadsheet so you can change your sight radius and your preferred aiming mark fill ratio. Give it a go. It works for me anyway.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/78137973/Forums/Ryan%20Neilsen%27s%20apperture%20size%20calculations.xlsx

Cheers,
Ryan Neilsen.

Josh Cox
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Re: Sight picture / eagle eye,

#19 Postby Josh Cox » Fri May 29, 2015 6:29 pm

Thanks Ryan.

EddyW
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Re: Sight picture / eagle eye,

#20 Postby EddyW » Sun May 31, 2015 10:13 am

That's very interesting Ryan. I think I'm the only person in Australia whose not using an EE. But looking at the iris range, I can't see any adjustable iris that would cover all ranges. What are you using up front?
I might go back to individual elements rather than an adjustable one. Should be a few out there now that everyone is shooting F class... :wink:

Kingy
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Re: Sight picture / eagle eye,

#21 Postby Kingy » Sun May 31, 2015 12:39 pm

Hi all,
The ring sizes I am using in my Sumo are very close to Ryans and seem pretty good but I am actually framing the target due to bad eyes more than anything.
I have recently stopped using the .5 as it seems to be too strong and is very blurry for me and have gone to a .3 and am now considering taking out the EE altogether.
Failing all of that working I will head to the dark side with a horrorscope.
One of the young blokes in our club recently stopped using an EE altogether. His V count went up dramatically.
Cheers

David B
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Re: Sight picture / eagle eye,

#22 Postby David B » Sun May 31, 2015 8:52 pm

I tend to keep the rear peep below 1.0, with a .5 I use a 35" barrel this in my opinion gives a clearer picture.

higginsdj
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Re: Sight picture / eagle eye,

#23 Postby higginsdj » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:52 am

Josh Cox wrote:
Insert the shooter, I am having some really good shoots and some not so good, and I believe, usually sighting related.


Such is the life of a newish shooter but there is likely a lot more to it than just sighting!

Josh Cox wrote:I do not wear glasses, my eyes are frequently tested, no issues with my eye sight.

I feel that my use of the eagle eye may be the variable, it was explained to me that not using an eagle eye puts me at a disadvantage.

When shooting in poor visibility with the eagle eye, the sight picture is crap.

Most points lost are at 6 and 12'oclock, the rest rimming around the 5 ring.

Am I misusing the eagle eye ?, having the eagle eye makes the aiming mark look bigger, but at what cost ?

I will shoot without the eagle eye for the next few weeks and see what changes.

Thoughts ?


Given you seem to have an issue in 'poor visibility' with the EE (what is that - low light, bad mirage, fog, dust.......) I would hazard that you are not adjusting your rear iris aperture according to the conditions There is no 1 setting to suit your eye in all conditions. I adjust mine from 0.4 to 1.2 depending on the light conditions (and what filter I might be using) Remember, your rear iris is your sight picture focusing mechanism. The other thing to bear in mind is that the EE does not only magnify the size of the aim point but significantly increases the amount of light that comes through to the eye. Too much light and your sight picture becomes distorted. Now people will be throwing a lot of values at you but take them with a grain of salt. The rear Iris value will vary with your eye distance from the rear peep and not everyone is the same here. It also depends on your sight radius. Front ring size will depend on your eyes ability to centre the aim point in a ring and too small a ring can distort your aim point image as well. With a 30" barrel I use a 4-6mm variable iris and this covers all ranges for me using a 0.5 EE. With a bloop tube I have to move to a 5.5-7.5mm variable.

Lesson here is to experiment and see what works for you and if it isn't working then change something - but just one thing at a time.

Josh Cox
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Re: Sight picture / eagle eye,

#24 Postby Josh Cox » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:23 am

Thanks David.

Have been using bigger front sight settings which is working.

Josh Cox
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Re: Sight picture / eagle eye,

#25 Postby Josh Cox » Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:33 pm

Thanks Gents,

Have been having some good results without an eagle eye and using rings as per Ryans spreadsheet, have been using even bigger rings, with pleasantly surprising results.

Eddy
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Re: Sight picture / eagle eye,

#26 Postby Eddy » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:19 pm

EddyW wrote: I think I'm the only person in Australia whose not using an EE.
nah ya not dude ...

Josh Cox
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Re: Sight picture / eagle eye,

#27 Postby Josh Cox » Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:09 pm

Ryan,

My guess is your ring sizes are too small when using an eagle eye.


Perhaps I am reading too far between the lines, but, if 50% is the minimum recommended for EE, can one go smaller ring / bigger % without EE without adverse effect ?

Rick O'shay
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Re: Sight picture / eagle eye,

#28 Postby Rick O'shay » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:58 pm

I want to give this TR shooting a go .
1/ should the spirt level be on the top or bottom of front sight ?
2/ 30mm or 22 mm pros and cons ?
3/ adjustable height ?

I have been shooting f class and thought I would give TR a go while I am under 60yrs old :shock:

scott/r
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Re: Sight picture / eagle eye,

#29 Postby scott/r » Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:10 am

Good to see another so called backwards shooter (f/class - t/r) as I've been referred to.

The bubble in your front sight i think is more personal preference.

I've just gone from a 22mm to a 30mm tunnel and am kicking myself for not doing it sooner. But I haven't used it in gusty winds yet, which is their down side from what I've been told. It's like being on the Internet with your phone and then changing the your computer screen.

My new 30mm is adjustable. I personally like the idea of being able to adjust my front sight and leaving the rear in pretty much the same place. I only have 10 minutes of adjustments in the rear between 300yrds and 1000 yrds.

KHGS
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Re: Sight picture / eagle eye,

#30 Postby KHGS » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:44 am

Josh Cox wrote:Thanks David.

Have been using bigger front sight settings which is working.


I told you so!!! =D> :D
Keith H.


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