Bisley style shooting

For general announcements, and anything which does not fit into one of the categories below.

Moderator: Mod

Message
Author
bainp
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:05 pm
Location: Wagga Wagga, Australia

Re: Bisley style shooting

#61 Postby bainp » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:35 pm

I travel to Bisley every year and quite like shooting Bisley style and I am certain that it has helped my wind reading abilities. From this experience however, I know that there is one major drawback of Bisley style in Australia.
In the UK you are laying on the ground in 20 -30 degree temperatures, most times even lower temperatures. For a match rifle or target rifle shooter done up in their shooting jacket this is not too bad in the cooler climes. But If you are laying on the ground for double or triple the time in 30 to 40 degree temperatures as in many Australian major events in padded jackets and sometimes a pullover underneath, this becomes unbearable and maybe even dangerous to you health.
I know that very few F class shooters actually use jackets, so will not be affected as much by the hot conditions experienced at many Australian major events.
Even in the June/July/August months (winter) it can still reach very hot temperatures in Brisbane, Darwin and Alice Springs.
I think this is probably the main reason that Australia uses the string shooting method over pair or threesome!!!! style.
Regards - Philip

bruce moulds
Posts: 2350
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

Re: Bisley style shooting

#62 Postby bruce moulds » Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:33 pm

why we string shoot is in the history of fullbore in this country.
the sport was used as a supplimentary form of defence for aust. and shooters were held in respect by the public.
the military supplied ammunition and cheap rifles, and ran the ranges.
the nraa was an organ of the military, greasing the cogs of what they wanted.
one thing the military wanted was the ability to fire numbers of shots accurately and with a degree of speed.
this suited ww1 tactics,as well as ww2.
the social structure of the nraa was loaded with military brass, the beginnings of the "old boys's club" that has all but been the downfall of long range shooting in thuis country of latter times. but that is another story.
string shooting came from the military, as it did in the usa as well.
with the coming of fclass, and using rests, string shooting has become an artform.
it the usa, shooters are allowed many sighters before going for score, and they aim off for preference during the string.
this does not suit team shooting, as has been proven by aust f open teams twice now.
the world beating skills gained could well be lost if we neglect this aspect of the sport.
as of now, tr still holds the power in long range shooting in this country when oush comes to shove.
we have all felt a need to remain connected to tr and stay as one movement.
maybe it is time for tr to start recognizing our needs, because if the do not, they might find themselves without us.
we are not part of the military tradition any more, as the military has made it clear that they do not want us.
they did their utmost to get rid of "any rifle " shooting in favour of military, but now tr and fclass are both "any rifle" in the historical sense.
we are part if an international competitive movement and bisley training will keep us at the top longer than string shooting.
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880
http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

johnk
Posts: 2168
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:55 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Bisley style shooting

#63 Postby johnk » Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:55 pm

While officiating at the Oceania Games (the shakedown for the Commonwealth Games next year), I have had the opportunity to discover what time allowance is made for pair shooting at that level. Considering the shooter, marking & scoring, they squad on the basis of 1 minute per shot plus an allowance of something in the order of 35%.

In fact, the shooting time allowed for the remaining individual matches is:

10 plus two sighters (300, 500 & 600) - 35 minutes
15 shots plus two sighters (900 & 1000) - 50 minutes

I hope to discuss whether this is the same methodology used at Bisley for TR & MR events with those from that side of the pond.

How does this equate to time allowances at the Worlds?

John

RDavies
Posts: 1904
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:23 pm
Location: Singleton NSW

Re: Bisley style shooting

#64 Postby RDavies » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:02 pm

johnk wrote:While officiating at the Oceania Games (the shakedown for the Commonwealth Games next year), I have had the opportunity to discover what time allowance is made for pair shooting at that level. Considering the shooter, marking & scoring, they squad on the basis of 1 minute per shot plus an allowance of something in the order of 35%.

In fact, the shooting time allowed for the remaining individual matches is:

10 plus two sighters (300, 500 & 600) - 35 minutes
15 shots plus two sighters (900 & 1000) - 50 minutes

I hope to discuss whether this is the same methodology used at Bisley for TR & MR events with those from that side of the pond.

How does this equate to time allowances at the Worlds?

John

The ICFRA time limits are 1 minute per shot, so if it is a 15 shot match, which is 17 with sighters, then 2 shooters, it is 34 minutes for a 15 shot string. (No extra allowance in F class). The majority in Canada finished in under 15 minutes.

bainp
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:05 pm
Location: Wagga Wagga, Australia

Re: Bisley style shooting

#65 Postby bainp » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:34 am

OK, so whether the reason for string shooting in this country is for the reason I referred to, or whether it is because of historical reasons, I have seen on at least two occasions at the National Queens when it was still held in Canberra, a shooter overcome by the extreme heat while on the firing point. On one of those occasions the shooter was in his scoring stage when overcome by the heat. He did not collapse, he went into fit like state. The shooter had no control of his actions and at one stage there was a loaded rifle waving all over the place, including at other shooters and spectators. Having seen this, I don't want to be laying on the ground for up to 50 minutes (not including the 10 minutes or so of preparation time allowed) in the hot weather we encounter here in Australia. I have no trouble laying on the ground for that period when shooting at Bisley on a "hot for them" 25 degree day.
As I was inferring previously, pair and threesome shooting has health and safety implications in Australia's much hotter climate than in UK's cool/mild climate.
Philip

AlanF
Posts: 6779
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:22 pm
Location: Maffra, Vic

Re: Bisley style shooting

#66 Postby AlanF » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:59 am

Phil,

You've highlighted something that I for one had never considered. As you say F-Class shooters can dress much lighter. For that reason it may be better to look at F-Class only events for warmer times and places, and also think carefully about 2 vs 3 per target, and consider reducing the number of shots. Lower Light in April still looks suitable.

bruce moulds
Posts: 2350
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

Re: Bisley style shooting

#67 Postby bruce moulds » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:40 pm

tr has to do what tr has always done.
put tr first.
until now, of necessity, fclass has done the same, i.e. put tr first.
personally i would like to shoot tr, but will not do so due to the issue of shooting in a coat on hot days.
we just have to take the path most suited to the individual.
however, in the bisley issue, the time might have come for the big Y junction to take place.
tr can come for the ride if they want - that would be their choice.
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

Quick
Posts: 911
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:09 pm
Location: Yanchep, Western Australia
Contact:

Re: Bisley style shooting

#68 Postby Quick » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:15 am

The way I see it, its upto the shooter to decide how to shoot their application. I can shoot fast but I can also shoot slow. Sometimes shooting fast for a few rounds works and then it can catch you out. Its upto the shooter to choose how to shoot their application, no one else I think. No delay is my vote.
Shaun aka 'Quick'
Yanchep, Western Australia

308 Win F/TR & F-S
7mm F-Open Shooter.

Tim N
Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:18 pm
Location: Branxton NSW

Re: Bisley style shooting

#69 Postby Tim N » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:25 pm

AlanF wrote:Phil,

You've highlighted something that I for one had never considered. As you say F-Class shooters can dress much lighter. For that reason it may be better to look at F-Class only events for warmer times and places, and also think carefully about 2 vs 3 per target, and consider reducing the number of shots. Lower Light in April still looks suitable.


South Africa doesn't get hot so they can do bisley no worries :?
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC

AlanF
Posts: 6779
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:22 pm
Location: Maffra, Vic

Re: Bisley style shooting

#70 Postby AlanF » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:09 pm

Tim N wrote:...South Africa doesn't get hot...

I am detecting some verbal irony. And yes it would get hot there, although Bloemfontein is quite elevated.

Tim N
Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:18 pm
Location: Branxton NSW

Re: Bisley style shooting

#71 Postby Tim N » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:36 am

AlanF wrote:
Tim N wrote:...South Africa doesn't get hot...

I am detecting some verbal irony. And yes it would get hot there, although Bloemfontein is quite elevated.


Since sarcasm is regarded as the lowest form of wit I prefer to go with irony :D

With heat being a possible safety concern for our TR comrades maybe this could be the catalyst to get covers approved for main events?

We need a pic of someone stirring the pot Alan
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC


Return to “General Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jasmay, scott/r and 1 guest