Bisley style shooting

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Brad Y
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:21 pm

Bisley style shooting

#1 Postby Brad Y » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:08 pm

Was lucky enough to have my first go at bisley style shooting today. Honestly life has been hectic with building and moving and landscaping and work, I have had little time for shooting. But the small amount I did do has been quite stale and going through the motions throwing a string down.

But shooting alongside an FCWC team shooter, and going through it shot by shot each reading what was being offered condition wise was great fun. I can really see how this style of shooting will help new shooters learn what wind does to a projectile when fired. And less heat going into the barrel from continual fire means hopefully my barrels will last a bit longer. Not that there is anything wrong with shooting string fire, but this was quite an enjoyable way of shooting for me. The two of us got through it in the same time as two regular club shooters. Hopefully more and more are willing to give it a go. If you haven't done it, grab a mate and lay down and do it. I found it very satisfying.

Gerard
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:36 pm
Location: Rifle Range QLD

Re: Bisley style shooting

#2 Postby Gerard » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:13 am

I agree and think its great practice in memorising your last sight adjustment and keeping an eye on the flags to try stay in step.
So far I have only had the opportunity to try it once, that was during QRA Dev Squad at Goondiwindi, but would welcome the opportunity to shoot that style more regularly. Our Silvermountain Target systems support that too, with a capability to manage up to 3 shooters bisley style per target.
The only potential negative I can think of is, that if a shooter delayed overly long it would be quite tedious for the others. So perhaps it would need to be time enforced. (45sec per shot). Given the excess time we now have after finishing our two stages each week, I think I will try get some others interested in shooting an extra stage Bisley style, perhaps it would catch on. Let me know if yours is a timed shoot and how you manage that?

Tim N
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:18 pm
Location: Branxton NSW

Re: Bisley style shooting

#3 Postby Tim N » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:07 am

After shooting Bisley style for the FCWC I'm hooked!
The 45 sec rule applys and in my experience the ones I have been partnered with shot quick enough to not be a concern.
Not too much chasing the spotter and each shot can be a sighter in rough conditions.
There's a few of us would like to have the opportunity to shoot bisley competition here in OZ.
From memory everyone who shot the FCWC enjoyed the challenge of shooting this way.
Hopefully next year will see the introduction of some Bisley comps.
Last edited by Tim N on Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC

Brad Y
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:21 pm

Re: Bisley style shooting

#4 Postby Brad Y » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:05 pm

Agree Tim. I would like it to be a bit more common based on the first experience, will be asking our club to consider making our f class picnic shoot incorporate it into the program. Looking forward to it in 2018 and beyond.

lonerider43
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:55 pm

Re: Bisley style shooting

#5 Postby lonerider43 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:39 pm

weve shot that style a few times out at my club.
loads of fun.
good fun pulling targets as well.hectic,but good fun.

RDavies
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Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:23 pm
Location: Singleton NSW

Re: Bisley style shooting

#6 Postby RDavies » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:50 pm

I am also a new fan of Bisley style shooting and hope to get to do some more of it. As mentioned, it helps improve wind reading and tactics in general. It certainly makes for a change of pace and adds some variety to F Class in Australia. Another side benefit is barrels not heating up and burning out as quickly as they do in the rapid fire belly benchrest we shoot in Australia. I have been chatting to a few people around the country who are looking at possibly holding a few low key Bisley style shoots to give people some exposure. I hope you are able to incorporate some Bisley style ranges at your Golden Bullet Prize shoot in W.A Brad.

bruce moulds
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Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

Re: Bisley style shooting

#7 Postby bruce moulds » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:42 am

so where did bisley style shooting come from?
it was the style used when long range muzzle loaders were used, because it allowed guys to load while others shot on the same target, thus speeding up proceedings.
we have all heard of the great creedmoor matches , the first being in 1874 at tha creedmoor range in new york.
the irish, believing themselves to be the best in the world, challenged the americans to a match at 1000, 1100, and 1200 yards.
the americans did not have a range that long, so the match was 800, 900, and 1000 yards.
as we all know, the americans shooting breech loaders won the match, the irish shooting rigby muzzle loaders.
rifles were limited to 12 lbs weight and were required to have a min trigger wt of 3 lbs
these were known as "any rifle", a term still used today in palma in usa.
interestingly the irish would have won if one of their members had not crossfired.
this match, and the great centennial match of 1876, attended also by aust, both won by usa, were touted as proof of the breech loader being superior to the muzzle loader.
what is not so commonly known is that the black powder any rifle continued up until 1912 in the usa, well after the 30/06 was in use, and some shooters were still using muzzle loaders.
all breech loaders wiped their barrels between shots with sometimes up to 5 rods for different jobs, and some were muzzle loading their breech loaders using false muzzles. of them sime did this in order to use more than a case full of powder.
fixed ammo wasin a minority, as breech seated bullets proved to be more accurate.
all this meant that shooting in turns as in the muzzle loading era suited the sport.
at the same time the military had a different slant on things.
they were more interested in string fire for obvious reasons.
state militias in the usa and yeoman militias in britain were not interested in any rifle, and actively worked to get rid of it.
in the us a group of colonels took over the nra as it was then.
in britain wiping between shots was banned in the 1880s.
the brits had powder of such quality that they could still shoot with accuracy, as proved by gibbs shooting 50 consecutive shots int a 36" bull at 1000 yards using fixed ammo in a falling block rifle from the supine position.
in modern times we cannot get powder of that quality.
the brits just keps shooting what is now called bisley style for long range as did many other empire and later commonwealth countries like canada.
people who have grown up shootin bisley style take it in their stride, and generally become excellent wind readers.
in the old days of any rifle, which became the palma matches of today,either sighters were only allowed at 800 yds, and cost a sum of money per shot, or were not allowed at all.
they could read the wind then, because they had to, just like modern bisley style shooters.
wind reading has up until recently been a dimension of our sport, even with string shooting.
not just a dimension, but a very large part of it.
the sport has been one suited to those who do not require instant gratification, but prefer to improve like a fine wine with the time it takes.
it would appear that all the history and tradition of long range shooting as well as the dimension and satisfaction of long term self improvement is about to be flushed down the toilet by weak nra rules decisions.
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880
http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

GSells
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:04 pm

Re: Bisley style shooting

#8 Postby GSells » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:38 pm

Bruce , could you expand further on your comment about NRA rules ? I most definitely don't want the at the centre of controversy, as I think I've had my share of late and want to stay away from that !!
But I am curious?
Also good write up of the history of our sport .

bruce moulds
Posts: 2087
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

Re: Bisley style shooting

#9 Postby bruce moulds » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:59 pm

graham,
our oz fullbore shooting went the military way of string shooting when the 303 took over.
because the military ran our sport for so many years it was their deal.
then they dropped us due to lack of interest, and we had to start making our own way.
that way is largely based on palma and rifles to suit.
the nra has largely failed to advance us to our potential through little vision and the planning that comes from that, and failed to promote our sport as a marketable product.
this is not however all their fault.
the eason is that the nra has no teeth in so many areas, as it is still just a body meant to coordinate the states, as it was prior to federation.
however it does seem to control the rules.
in this area they let several cats out of the bag when fclass std was being formed to the extent that it never reached its potential.
now that electronic targets are beginning to happen, they continue to fail to deal with cats in bags and horses bolting to the extent that fclass, the modern version of any rifle and palma, will never be the same, having had a a major dimension just sliced off forever.
bisley is the most obvious way to save this dimension.
if something is not done soon we will lose an important aspect of long range shooting altogether, or we will have to run 2 disciplines for every one we have now, one for wind readers and one for those who simply want to shoot fast.
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

johnk
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:55 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Bisley style shooting

#10 Postby johnk » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:29 pm

Some Disagree, Bruce.

GSells
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:04 pm

Re: Bisley style shooting

#11 Postby GSells » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:50 pm

Thanks Bruce for your reply !! I'm going to step in and say let's let sleeping dogs lie ! I only just recently kissed and made up with one of the participants. And have tried very hard to bring us all back together!

I see a lot of comparisons between the 1800's and now when technology comes into play . They would have had their problems back then too!

I personally know how explosive this topic can be and it's just not worth it !!
If it can be helped , let's not have round 2 :)

Tim N
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:18 pm
Location: Branxton NSW

Re: Bisley style shooting

#12 Postby Tim N » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:01 am

If shooting fast isn't your thing then FTR has a natural inbuilt delay.
I personally don't want to gear up for 30 sec matches but neither will I run down anyone who does, all within the rules.
Should Bisley matches become available I will be very interested to attend.
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC

bruce moulds
Posts: 2087
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

Re: Bisley style shooting

#13 Postby bruce moulds » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:48 pm

john,
some do disagree, and see it purely as a shoot fast vs shoot slower and read the wind issue.
however, the ones that push speed shooting do not seem to understand what it means to spend 20 years trying to lear a skill and see that all go down the drain.
shooting fast is as much a lotto as a skill, and it is just not worth travelling and spending money to compete on that basis.
should they win in this, they will as i said carve off a dimension of fclass and throw it away for ever.
again like i said, maybe each discipline should be split in to speed shooting and wind reading shooting or bisley.
this comes down to instant gratification vs the greater pleasure gained from a long term relationship with a challenge.
graham,
not sure what happened to you, but it seems to have left you deeply scarred.
tim,
f open has been my deal since before there as f ope - roughly 20 yrs.
it would be nice to stay there until i die with the original ethos.
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

Gyro
Posts: 140
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:44 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Bisley style shooting

#14 Postby Gyro » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:12 pm

Bruce, anyone that gets on the podium at a big shoot understands plenty about shooting whether they are "machine gunning" or not.

They also MAY know plenty about wind reading. Lots of thinking shooters have waded into this one !!!

Surely we all have plenty in common and ultimately want to get along well together ?

I'm with Graham : let the rule makers deal with this one. Or not.

Steve N
Posts: 358
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 8:16 pm
Location: Logan Queensland

Re: Bisley style shooting

#15 Postby Steve N » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:19 pm

I reckon it would be interesting to have one or more ranges of Bisley at major competitions. Maybe the second day of a prize meeting or even an afternoon at a queens or arranged to make it optional from the main event similar to the way teams are included? Should be easier to organise than a new event.


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