International NRAA teams funding & fundraising.

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jasmay
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Re: International FCWC teams and funding?

#16 Postby jasmay » Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:13 pm

I asked about .308 Palma brass ages ago as an option from Bertram, but was shut down early.

Given the cost now if Lap Palma and it's uk and down quality of Bertram could do a similar of better job between a few shooters I know we'd probably keep them busy ourselves

ShaneG
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Re: International FCWC teams and funding?

#17 Postby ShaneG » Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:17 pm

So John, no funding is supplied by the NRAA for international teams or individuals?
All self funded?

As for funding the "elite" - I beg to differ!
The 2013 Team members if on a proverbial shoestring would have personally spent at least $10K each.
All we got was entry fees paid by NRAA that I am aware of ?
Before that I know that in gear and Queens attendances which were required I would estimate I spent minimum $7K before I left the country.

So why can't the state and national organisation be geared to support a team to contest a World competition financially so that some of the "elite" who can't afford to attend if totally self funded may do so?
I would propose that if we compete in an internationally recognised sport then we should be prepared to support a team or individual to represent our country!
Doesn't that seem the goal of competition? To have our countries competitors capable of winning the pinnacle event of that discipline!

johnk
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Re: International FCWC teams and funding?

#18 Postby johnk » Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:21 pm

ShaneG wrote:So John, no funding is supplied by the NRAA for international teams or individuals?
All self funded?

Exactly.

I was manager of the 2006 Australian Match Rifle team to Bisley (a green Blazer & coat of arms team). My initial budget calculation for that team was $7850 each - the cost of regalia extra - & in the end we exceeded that by quite a few hundred dollars. I can't recall anybody keeping tabs on the costs we expended before we left, but the Queenslanders in the team knocked up around 15000 miles to & from Brisbane where we shared a vehicle going to state championships & team practices south of the border. Around that time, the Australian dollar was worth about 40 pence - say $7.50 for a pint & food equally expensive.

There are five world cup teams traveling every four years - Palma, Under 25 (could be an under 21 as well if we could field them both), veterans, F/TR & FO - lets say something around 70 team members. If the average cost were $7500 per team member, then we're looking at a 4 yearly budget of $525,000, or $131,250 pa. If we have a NRAA affiliation of 3500 (& I suspect that is optimistic), then individual shooters would need to be levied $37.50 a year to cover those team costs.

You convince them.

DenisA
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Re: International FCWC teams and funding?

#19 Postby DenisA » Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:02 pm

There are plenty of ways to fund raise and plenty of business orientated minds in this game to do it.

Just because it hasn't been done in the past doesn't mean it cant be dome for the future.

Is it possible for the NRAA to appoint a FCWC fundraising team? Start now for 2021.

SuperV
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Re: International FCWC teams and funding?

#20 Postby SuperV » Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:55 pm

Good job for Dennis. I'm sure a man of your ability is up to the task. But for all teams please.

DenisA
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Re: International FCWC teams and funding?

#21 Postby DenisA » Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:15 pm

SuperV wrote:Good job for Dennis. I'm sure a man of your ability is up to the task. But for all teams please.


Maybe not the best choice but, even though I don't intend on shooting FCWC in the foreseeable future, I would put my hand up if such a committee was appointed........... given that it was a good group of like minded people.

Are you in too then Ben? :D

Actually, I'll back pedal a little. I think this is important for the NRAA and the sport but I'm only interested trying to help those that want to help themselves. So far very few of those that this topic is currently affecting have commented.

AlanF
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Re: International FCWC teams and funding?

#22 Postby AlanF » Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:35 pm

johnk wrote:...If we have a NRAA affiliation of 3500 (& I suspect that is optimistic), then individual shooters would need to be levied $37.50 a year to cover those team costs...

I think this is the crux of the matter. The NRAA can't do more than its membership can afford. The solution is the same as for many other problems we face - we need to increase membership.

SunnyCoast 5r
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Re: International FCWC teams and funding?

#23 Postby SunnyCoast 5r » Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:55 pm

My long term goal (about 10 years when my youngest finishes school) is to improve to the point where I might one day be in contention for overseas comps...but my view is I would just pay my own way. I am fortunate to be with an employer as mentioned where some paid leave is given for elite comps. Or I might be retired!

If, as has been suggested, the deeper issue is membership numbers then the logical suggestion is that funds would HAVE to be provided by competitors or outside sponsors.

Outside sponsors need to get something back...we need to carefully consider what we are prepared to give? Signage? Sales? Promotion of product? Teams to exclusively use certain products?
These may be compromises that competitors are not willing to make if it harms competitiveness.

I like the Cowboys but am not prepared to buy a Toyota because of their sponsorship automatically.

My view would be to survey current/potential team members (all teams) and find out what they could live with...might not be the 'best' action/projectile/scope/rest/brass from a sponsor...you might find there is not much concensus...then you just want cash which might be even harder to get!

I would then approach the corporate guys (or NRAA members) with a unified plan letting them know what WE could do for THEM. Committees are not good at this sort of thing: team managers?

Thales is my hunch but what are we prepared to compromise (all use their new action? Their barrels? Their powder even if some other ubeaut powder comes on the scene?)??

Imagine if Winchester was prepared to sponsor the FCWC but you had to use their brass?

Be careful of what you wish for.

bsouthernau
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Re: International FCWC teams and funding?

#24 Postby bsouthernau » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:32 am

DenisA wrote: I think this is important for the NRAA and the sport but I'm only interested trying to help those that want to help themselves. So far very few of those that this topic is currently affecting have commented.


I'm not currently affected but have been in the past. My preference has been to put the money in myself rather than go round seeking sponsorship or selling raffle tickets etc.

Barry

bsouthernau
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Re: International FCWC teams and funding?

#25 Postby bsouthernau » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:38 am

SunnyCoast 5r wrote:
Imagine if Winchester was prepared to sponsor the FCWC but you had to use their brass?


I'd think all my Christmases had come at once.

DenisA
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Re: International FCWC teams and funding?

#26 Postby DenisA » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:27 am

bsouthernau wrote:
DenisA wrote: I think this is important for the NRAA and the sport but I'm only interested trying to help those that want to help themselves. So far very few of those that this topic is currently affecting have commented.


I'm not currently affected but have been in the past. My preference has been to put the money in myself rather than go round seeking sponsorship or selling raffle tickets etc.

Barry


This reply frustrates me so much. I obviously view things far differently to most other people and so I don't know why I bother opening my mouth or showing interest. I keep doing it and I keep realising its the same thing. Nothing will ever get better or improve in this sport because the majority of members can't be bothered except for those at the extreme that want full control.

This attitude is the trouble. People are constantly only thinking about themselves rather than the bigger picture and it's future.

That's great for you and those that can afford it. It's not an attitude that encourages younger people and those with less disposable income to try to compete at an international level.
So basically, only people with plenty of disposable income can realise their full potential and represent Australia, and who says that people with money are the most skillfull or talented in this sport.

I realise that's a situation that's true of many small sports, but it doesn't have to be.

We have a governing body who's job it is to encourage their product. The NRAA's business IS Fullbore and they should be working for its future and growth and International representation is the pinnacle of most sports.

jasmay
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Re: International FCWC teams and funding?

#27 Postby jasmay » Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:12 am

DenisA wrote:
bsouthernau wrote:
DenisA wrote: I think this is important for the NRAA and the sport but I'm only interested trying to help those that want to help themselves. So far very few of those that this topic is currently affecting have commented.


I'm not currently affected but have been in the past. My preference has been to put the money in myself rather than go round seeking sponsorship or selling raffle tickets etc.

Barry


This reply frustrates me so much. I obviously view things far differently to most other people and so I don't know why I bother opening my mouth or showing interest. I keep doing it and I keep realising its the same thing. Nothing will ever get better or improve in this sport because the majority of members can't be bothered except for those at the extreme that want full control.

This attitude is the trouble. People are constantly only thinking about themselves rather than the bigger picture and it's future.

That's great for you and those that can afford it. It's not an attitude that encourages younger people and those with less disposable income to try to compete at an international level.
So basically, only people with plenty of disposable income can realise their full potential and represent Australia, and who says that people with money are the most skillfull or talented in this sport.

I realise that's a situation that's true of many small sports, but it doesn't have to be.

We have a governing body who's job it is to encourage their product. The NRAA's business IS Fullbore and they should be working for its future and growth and International representation is the pinnacle of most sports.


Denis, don't get frustrated mate, its just how it is now and conversation and ideas is what will help it grow, I for one very much appreciate your openness and willingness to express your ideas.

I look at the SSAA and how it supports its shooters headed to world level championships, its part of the reason I have taken up rimfire BR, to see how the other side, that has a lion share of the Australian shooters under its banner do it, had a few chats with the vice president too, top guy, very motivated and also politically active to better out sport.

Things will change, time is all it takes.

The idea is sponsoring top level athletes isn't a new one, just look at all the other sports around.

plumbs7
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Location: Dalby/ Tara Rifle Club

Re: International FCWC teams and funding?

#28 Postby plumbs7 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:51 am

DenisA wrote:
bsouthernau wrote:
DenisA wrote: I think this is important for the NRAA and the sport but I'm only interested trying to help those that want to help themselves. So far very few of those that this topic is currently affecting have commented.


I'm not currently affected but have been in the past. My preference has been to put the money in myself rather than go round seeking sponsorship or selling raffle tickets etc.

Barry


This reply frustrates me so much. I obviously view things far differently to most other people and so I don't know why I bother opening my mouth or showing interest. I keep doing it and I keep realising its the same thing. Nothing will ever get better or improve in this sport because the majority of members can't be bothered except for those at the extreme that want full control.

This attitude is the trouble. People are constantly only thinking about themselves rather than the bigger picture and it's future.

That's great for you and those that can afford it. It's not an attitude that encourages younger people and those with less disposable income to try to compete at an international level.
So basically, only people with plenty of disposable income can realise their full potential and represent Australia, and who says that people with money are the most skillfull or talented in this sport.

I realise that's a situation that's true of many small sports, but it doesn't have to be.

We have a governing body who's job it is to encourage their product. The NRAA's business IS Fullbore and they should be working for its future and growth and International representation is the pinnacle of most sports.

Denis I'm with Jase and saying thank you for taking up the cause . Next time it maybe you trialling out for the worlds and it is exspensive . The committee idea has Merrit if the right people could be found .

It would be great if the big firearms companies could get behind this brilliant team that is soon to be announced ! Airfares and accomodation paid for would be a huge burden lifted of the shooters shoulders. Be Great if Qantas could get on board !
Also we don't know what deals have been done yet ?
Last edited by plumbs7 on Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

saum2
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Re: International FCWC teams and funding?

#29 Postby saum2 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:55 am

As the NRAA is a minority shooting group, perhaps it's time they made an effort & started talks with the majority, SSAA. 7,500 NRAA members as against 220,000 SSAA members, then perhaps funding would be achievable. Just think, $10 surcharge from each member for teams funding, that's nearly $4.5 Million, then add some fund raising and sponsorship activities, everyone wins. Current SSAA membership is approx. $87 compared to NRAA.
Just an idea!

ShaneG
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Location: Cairns

Re: International FCWC teams and funding?

#30 Postby ShaneG » Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:36 pm

Maybe check your maths Rebel? 227.5K members by $10 would be $2.275M?

And would be great to see our teams funded by the Australians who shoot?
My point earlier was that those that can afford it now represent us at GREAT personal cost to do so!
These people are highly motivated and competitive to spend all those $.
But possibly not all of these dedicated people may be the best of the best required to bring home the gold?

We need a long term plan to help with team funding as Denis has suggested.
As part of shooting our discipline (recognised internationally) all shooters under such a discipline should be required to make $ available for major competitions such as World F Class every 4 years.

Remember that most WLB only recognise International competitions as genuine reason for sporting purposes. So maintaining such a discipline helps in keeping a Firearms Licence!
And this will only get more difficult as time goes by!

So Alan that maybe the sell point to have the national body harvest some funds?

Who for goodness sake can't afford another $50 per year towards this funding?
$1 per week to help see us provide support to our teams?
Considering the cost of even a club only shooter per annum to set up a rifle and just 25 rounds a week?
Would people leave our sport over a $1 per week?
If so, then maybe they would be better off at golf?

All $ raised under this levy to go to teams proportionally by membership.
Nothing to be absorbed by admin or top heavy team management.

As John has elucidated even the TR teams are under funded!

I would be more than happy to have some of my levy go to TR as long as F Class received the correct proportion as well!
Out TR shooters have been highly competitive of late and I want to support those people as well as an Australian shooter.


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