Future Structure of Queens Events

[budget]

[quote="Davies"]
If it is about having an easy target to settle their nerves, is the 500yd target any more difficult to shoot a good score than the 300 with a bad hold?
At the Nationals it was not just the F class shooters I heard grumbling about the Nationals continuing with 300 when other Queens are moving on.


i don't think at any stage i stated that 300 yds was an easy target to settle the nerves! exactly the opposite.
you need to maybe re:read the post.
As for the last paragraph i personally have never spoken to anyone from TR that wants to remove 300 yds,actually to be perfectly honest i don't know anyone from TR that wants to change anything.

[johnk]

Why would they? They've had 150 years to sort out what they want. We've had maybe 20.

[budget]

Why would they? They've had 150 years to sort out what they want. We've had maybe 20.

as the old saying goes "why fix it when it aint broke"
i think people need to spend more time enjoying the sport than continually trying to change things.

[jasmay]

i think people need to spend more time enjoying the sport than continually trying to change things.

Well said....

[mike H]

Why would they? They've had 150 years to sort out what they want. We've had maybe 20.

as the old saying goes "why fix it when it aint broke"
i think people need to spend more time enjoying the sport than continually trying to change things.

Agree,
Mike.

[KHGS]

Why would they? They've had 150 years to sort out what they want. We've had maybe 20.

as the old saying goes "why fix it when it aint broke"
i think people need to spend more time enjoying the sport than continually trying to change things.

Yaaay, love it, just leave things alone that are working, nothing is perfect, get over it & get on with shooting & developing your skills. We have no control over the weather or range anomalies, so suck it up & get on with it or find an easier sport, dominoes????? .
Keith H.

[johnk]

dominoes?????

Pizza is a sport?

[jasmay]

dominoes?????

Pizza is a sport?

Your spelling is terrible John....

[Tim N]

I think if any changes are to be made it should only be to line up with international rules.
Which for F Open might only be the rear rest set up.
Personally I think the 300 is becoming less relevant with the improving accuracy of rifles, but if it's shot internationally as with my first comment I think it should be kept.
My 10c

[cheech]

I think in team shooting the "shorts" are not relevant.

But in a Queens ,I think it would be appropriate for individuals to shoot every range at least once from 300 to 1000 yards or meters , because when you join a club/range they are the distances available to us so why not use them . A good opportunity to test man and machine at all levels .

Programme would be simple
Day 1. 3 4 & 5
Day2. 6 7 & 8
Day 3. 9 & 1000

Just a thought.

[Matt P]

I don't really care if 300 stays or goes, but I also don't care what the rest of the world is doing.
With ET's being used more and more and knowing the potential issues a bashed up target can make on target accuracy (I know this via actual testing not hear say) why would you shoot a range that does more target damage than any other range ??
Just something else to think about.
Matt P

[jasmay]

I don't really care if 300 stays or goes, but I also don't care what the rest of the world is doing.
With ET's being used more and more and knowing the potential issues a bashed up target can make on target accuracy (I know this via actual testing not hear say) why would you shoot a range that does more target damage than any other range ??
Just something else to think about.
Matt P

If the opportunity to shoot at a world level was hampered due to us not following the international standard, I'd leave the sport, I'm not the only one either.

As for 300 blowing ET's out, small calibres don't register well at the longs well either, there is a lot of issues with ET's that need resolving before I feel comfortable shooting high cost events on them, unless the issues are handled in a "shooter ET's the benefit of doubt" manner.

I personally witnessed more than a couple of "unable to locate shot" errors for the chap I was scoring for.

We have to be considerate and measured with any changes.

[johnk]

I've concluded that F class shooters are far to precious for their own good.

Every missed the plate call I had at the nationals with one exception was from an F class shooter. The vast majority were from shooters who couldn't return their windage to zero or move their elevation correctly. In all but one situation, the marker knew where the shot went. There were few crossfires, which we have concluded is because F class shooters can better acquire their own target when it has a spotter on it.

One miss was arguably attributable to the scorer not being able to find the shot, but was also consistent with a crossfire.

[bartman007]

I've concluded that F class shooters are far to precious for their own good.

John, in some cases that is justified

Where a F Class shooter is on target with their first shot, there is little reason to think they would miss the target with remaining shots where conditions are readable.

So if a person gets a miss in the middle of their shoot we need to try and identify whether it is shooter error or ET fault.

It really should fall on the RO and Scorer to try to identify this.

The Scorer should be watching the shooter, and may notice if they do a gross alignment of their rifle after shooting. Or if a shooter issue occurs with loading/unloading the rifle.

The RO should be aware of any ET issues that are current on the day.

[johnk]

The benefit of the Hexta ET is that if you give somebody else a complementary shot, disclaiming on the aggrieved target is a process that will not generally be finalised until the donor confesses, ie, two scorer units will need to be adjusted and then only with RO intervention. Compare that with the historical paper target perspective that second shots appear by magic - obviously - as on many occasions neither shooter nor scorer elsewhere acknowledge that a shot was fired astray.

The only instance of (possible) crossfiring that I recall last week was at one of the longs (9 or 10) & I challenge anybody to be on top of that minor angular change of aim. That excludes the well prepared shooter who donated several shots to his adjacent compatriot until he realised, with not unreasonable suggestions from the scorer, that his windage was a full turn astray. Likewise, the guy who put 4 over the top was chasing his elevation in the wrong direction. That was on paper targets where butt & range officials were well aware of where the strays were landing. I guess because that's not going to be available with ETs, shooters in that position will be more inclined to blame external circumstances.

I'm comfortable that the Hex target can record an acceptable result under a degree of attrition because of its 8 sensors - even if one is shot out. What I am aware of is that there may be an odd occasion where a result on the target is not immediately transferred to the monitors due to a transient comms issue, but that has a procedure to manage it. And before you pop on that, consider the number of occasions on a paper target where the scorer takes a lengthy delay to find a shot, and even as happened last week, needed assistance from the BO.

Incidentally, I've concluded that gross misaligment is the province of TR shooters. They aim at the same number in the next block, or on Belmont, at the another target with the same colour background. F classers seem to shoot next door & I've concluded that they haven't adjusted fully to turning their head to view their monitor yet without displacing aim onto the next target, particularly when their scope magnification is so high that they can't check the target number. Importantly, there is a much higher incidence of cross firing on Duncan range since ETs were commissioned.

It has me slightly concerned that while there are one or two OzF members who've shot on Belmont regularly & a number of others who shot the Natives event before the Nationals, that there is resounding silence about how they've managed ETs. Would be nice if they spoke up.

You see, I've become exponentially more cynical the longer I stand as a RO. I have to cleanse my mind every day to clear it of the conviction that, when cornered, a shooter will rage & squirm to find a blame other than their own ineptitude for a lost shot or an unexpected low value score.

The ETs that I'm familiar with don't miss a shot - unless they shut down/fail completely - though they may delay reporting one occasionally.