Lobbiest have lever actions in sights / NFA Review

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plumbs7
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Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights

#16 Postby plumbs7 » Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:54 pm

Just an update from Noia and Qld Shooters union.

GUN LAWS - UPDATE
MONDAY 17TH AUG 2015

Last week was a big week in Federal Parliament for the future of Australia’s gun laws. Industry have now been invited into the process to review the 1996 National Firearms Agreement, based on the recommendations of the Martin Place Siege Review. The Martin Place Siege Review calls on the Federal Government and all States and Territories to come to the table to work out how to simplify the regulation of the licensed firearms market and redeploy police resources to focus on illicit firearms.

In a perverse twist, there are a group of politicians and bureaucrats hell bent on opposing the reviews recommendation by proposing more not less restrictions on licensed firearms owners and ultimately starving front line police of the resources they need.

As parliament sits again this week, we have plenty of politicians to thank for their incredible efforts supporting the rights of licensed firearms owners, and we have a few politicians that need to be reminded that we are not going to sit quietly and watch them get a few cheap headlines at our expense. Could you please take the time to email your thanks to the following members for their efforts in supporting us:

To the Coalition members working tirelessly in the background to ensure licensed firearms owners, user groups and industry get a seat at the table and get their views heard:
Senator Bridget McKenzie senator.mckenzie@aph.gov.au
Senator Nigel Scullion Senator.Scullion@aph.gov.au
Hon John Cobb MP John.Cobb.MP@aph.gov.au
Ross Vasta MP Ross.Vasta.MP@aph.gov.au
Mark Coulton MP Mark.Coulton.MP@aph.gov.au
To the MP’s that moved a motion of disallowance for the regulation to prohibit the import of the 7 shot Adler shotgun:

In the Upper House:
Senator David Leyonheljm senator.leyonhjelm@aph.gov.au
Senator Ricky Muir senator.muir@aph.gov.au
In the Lower House:
Hon Bob Katter MP Bob.Katter.MP@aph.gov.au
Cathy McGowan AO, MP Cathy.McGowan.MP@aph.gov.au
To the Minister for Justice who has committed to personally chair monthly consultation with the recently formed Industry Reference Group comprising of Firearms Industry and user organisations:
Hon Michael Keenan MP michael.keenan.mp@aph.gov.au
And to our State members of Parliament that have been working hard behind the scenes with State Governments around the country:

Shooters and Fishers Party:
Hon Robert Borsak MLC robert.borsak@parliament.nsw.gov.au
Hon Robert Brown MLC Robert.Brown@parliament.nsw.gov.au
Jeff Bourman MLC jeff.bourman@parliament.vic.gov.au
Daniel Young MLC daniel.young@parliament.vic.gov.au
Hon Rick Mazza MLC rick.mazza@mp.wa.gov.au
Katter’s Australian Party:
Robbie Katter MP rob.katter@parliament.qld.gov.au
Shane Knuth Dalrymple@parliament.qld.gov.au
It was also revealed last week that the suspension of the import of the Adler 7 Shot Shotgun was instigated when every single State Police Minister personally requested that Minister Keenan suspend the importation of the firearm. None of the Ministers had sought any information about the firearm from industry, none of them had seen the gun and it has become apparent that their decision was based on the misguided belief that the firearm had some new technology that allowed the lever to operate faster than traditional lever action firearms. This has since been demonstrated to be untrue and exposed as a myth being peddled by the extremist group Gun Control Australia and the Greens.

Please let each Police Minister and their respective Premier know what you think about their personal request to suspend the import of Adler shotguns for licensed firearm owners:

QLD
Hon Jo-Ann Miller MP, Minister for Police Fire & Emergency Services, police@ministerial.qld.gov.au
Hon Annastacia Palaszczuk MP, Premier, thepremier@premiers.qld.gov.au
NSW
Hon Troy Grant MP, Minister for Justice & Police, dubbo@parliament.nsw.gov.au
Hon Mike Baird MP, Premier, manly@parliament.nsw.gov.au
NT
Hon Peter Chandler, MLA, Minister for Police, Fire & Emergency Services, minister.chandler@nt.gov.au
Hon Adam Giles MLA, Chief Minister, chief.minister@nt.gov.au
VIC
Hon Wade Noonan MP, Minister for Police, wade.noonan@parliament.vic.gov.au
Hon Daniel Andrews MP, Premier, daniel.andrews@parliament.vic.gov.au
TAS
Hon Rene Hidding MP, Minister for Police & Emergency Management, rene.hidding@parliament.tas.gov.au
Hon Will Hodgman MP, Premier, will.hodgman@parliament.tas.gov.au
SA
Hon Tony Piccolo, Minister for Police, ministerpiccolo@sa.gov.au
Hon Jay Weatherill, Premier, cheltenham@parliament.sa.gov.au
WA
Hon Liza Harvey MLA, Minister for Police, Minister.Harvey@dpc.wa.gov.au
Hon Colin Barnett MLA, Premier, wa-government@dpc.wa.gov.au
ACT
Joy Burch MLA, Minister for Police & Emergency Services, burch@act.gov.au
Andrew Barr MLA , Chief Minister, barr@act.gov.au
Please distribute this note to your contacts and encourage them to provide feedback to the members of parliament above, as well as to their own local State and Federal members of parliament.

plumbs7
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Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights

#17 Postby plumbs7 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:28 pm

A little worrying ! It looks like the sentiment is against us it seems !

From shooters Union Qld.

Dear Graham

Shooters Union is not aligned with any political party.

We want to work with any politician who is open-minded and wants to hear from law-abiding firearm owners.

In the past six months, we have been disappointed that Queensland’s Police Minister Jo-Ann Miller has not been willing to hear from us, or any of the members of the Ministerial Weapons Advisory Panel. This is despite the fact the panel was established under successive ALP governments, and continued under the last LNP government.

Last week, after issuing a media release expressing our dissatisfaction with the lack of consultation from the Minister, we were invited to a meeting, along with representatives from other industry organisations. This meeting was NOT a constructive meeting and left all in attendance VERY concerned for the future of firearm owners in Queensland.

One attendee was the chair of Women in Shooting and Hunting, Samara McPhedran. Dr McPhedran is a university expert on firearms and violence in our community. For your reference, I have included below her impressions of meeting with one of your elected representatives.

On 5th November, Police ministers from all states and territories will meet to discuss and agree on recommendations from the review of the National Firearms Agreement.

Minister Miller claims not to have seen the recommendations, and her demeanour at the meeting last week indicates that in any event she has no plans to consult with representatives of Queensland firearms groups prior to making her decision on the NFA review recommendations.

Please contact your state member of Parliament in writing right now and express your concern about the future of firearms related legislation in Queensland, and the Police Minister’s reluctance to engage with representative firearms groups.

Also we ask that you copy any such communication to the Premier of Queensland, Annastacia Palaszczuk.
You can find a list of Queensland parliamentarians with your local member’s details here:

http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/docume ... emlist.pdf
Law-abiding firearm users and their associates make up approximately 15% of the voters in Queensland. Your views deserve to be heard and we will continue to advocate forcefully on your behalf, but we need you to contact your local member and the Premier thepremier@premiers.qld.gov.au if the detailed information below concerns you as much as it does Shooters Union.

We need your help and support!
Please, tell your friends, colleagues and family of our efforts. Please send your views to your local state member and the Premier. United we will ensure Queensland has safe, effective and sensible firearms legislation.

plumbs7
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Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:32 am
Location: Dalby/ Tara Rifle Club

Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights

#18 Postby plumbs7 » Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:20 am

Hi again , the latest info I'm getting is that 5 shot shotgun lever actions will be recategorised into cat B and 7 shot lever shot guns into cat C or D . Nothing about ur favourite 30-30 lever actions , which have been around in Australia since the late 1800's . No new technology there!

There's just so much uncertainty and emotion going around on this. With nothing based on facts . We will find out next month after the review on the National firearms agreement is sorted and were we all stand . At the end of the day ; law abiding firearms aren't the problem!

plumbs7
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Location: Dalby/ Tara Rifle Club

Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights

#19 Postby plumbs7 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:30 am

Last chance to voice your opinion !
An update from Shooters union Qld.


Dear Graham

We understand that state and territory Police Ministers are being canvassed right now for their support to reclassify certain firearms from Category A to Cat B and Cat D. If your firearm is reclassified to Cat D you will be forced to surrender it and there will be no compensation.

We believe this final request for support from the Ministers is as a result of the volume of mail etc various MPs’ offices have been receiving about this assault on your rights as law abiding firearms owners and users. They are getting nervous – we are having an effect.

We have until this Friday to make our views heard by our state Members of Parliament and the Premier of Queensland. Please – contact your local state Member of Parliament and voice your concern and your disapproval. Do it by email or better still do it by phone. Tell them you do not support any reclassification of firearms, and you will vote against any government / MP who does support reclassification.

However you do it, please do it now. Even if you’ve done it already, do it again. And copy the Premier.

You can see a list with contact details of all Queensland State MP’s here:

http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/docume ... emlist.pdf

So contact your local member of Queensland parliament, and copy the Premier thepremier@premiers.qld.gov.au for good measure.

We have until Friday 30th October
And remember, stick to the facts, and keep it polite!

The Shooters Union Committee
www.ShootersUnion.com.au

Please share this email with your friends and social networks.

macguru
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Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights

#20 Postby macguru » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:55 am

Sounds like alot of scare tactics and misinformation to me

Lets see whats on the table .....
id quod est

DaveMc
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Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights

#21 Postby DaveMc » Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:09 am

Actually Andrew this is not a scare tactic!

There has been a group intent on banning MORF (Manually operated Rapid Fire Weapons - Levers, Pumps, straight pull) for some time. They have now found a voice in parliament with the recent firearm incidents and importation of the LA shotgun. The launch vehicle for these guys is the National Firearms agreement. They have an agenda and a vehicle and wide public support to get it off the ground. It will be fought and won/lost in the Parliament/senate and sooner than we would like. We need members of state and federal government who are on our side to get vocal. They need to hear your stories. Letters need to go to both for and against this argument - best avenue is your local representatives first with a "copy" to the premier, minister and prime minister. But as Plumbs said - keep it polite and factual with "genuine need" stories from agriculture etc.

Some would argue that we are insulated from this in F class but I can guarantee we are not far off the lips of the "next level". Every single person I talk to about my sport immediately conjures images that I am a "sniper" and can take down people from miles away. As far from the truth as this is does not take away public perception. Similar to Lever action shotguns. Lever Action shotguns have been legal in our country for 130 years. They are a widely used tool for feral animal control and have "NEVER" been used in an incident.

The people that own them are registered firearm owners using them for important work. None of the registered, legal firearm owners have any intention of using them in any other way. Controlling the legal ones will not stop (and is shown in the statistics) those with intent from obtaining a weapon (ellegally) and using it. The choice of weapon for the criminals is not a lever action 30-30 or 5 shot lever action shotgun. The result of this outcome is likely to be everyone in the country with a lever action or pump action rifle over 5 shots having to hand them in with no recompense. There will be no "buy back" this time.

The review of the incident in Sydney clearly highlighted the need to move resources from legal firearms owners to controlling the illegal importation, trade and manufacture of weapons. This is based on fact and statistics - not sentiment.

AlanF
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Location: Maffra, Vic

Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights

#22 Postby AlanF » Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:14 pm

DaveMc wrote:...The result of this outcome is likely to be everyone in the country with a lever action or pump action rifle over 5 shots having to hand them in with no recompense. There will be no "buy back" this time...
I can't see how it can be done without compensation. People (not just shooters) simply wouldn't stand for it. Politicians would not be able to defend taking peoples legitimately acquired belongings from them without fair compensation. Its a well established principle, and is not unlike the compulsory acquisition of land.

DaveMc
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Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights

#23 Postby DaveMc » Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:31 pm

Just had the blurb of clarification from SSAA that they are really only discussing shotguns at this stage (but others are interpreting differently and there are groups pushing for more)

Alan - the "reclassification" of a firearm into a different category by the states somehow dodges this. The state and more importantly federal government will not repossess them. You just won't be able to demonstrate a genuine need for a cat D license and therefore will have to sell your firearm.

If they only take on the ">5 shot lever action shotguns" then it is a fairly benign law with little kickback but if they go for >5 shot lever (or pump) action rifles then there will be an almighty uproar.

Considering we are not allowed to convert a cat D pump action shotgun back to cat C by shortening the magazine I do not know where this leaves everybody? Perhaps they will pass a law to allow you to shorten magazines to < 5 shot and be reclassified cat B ???? but I doubt it.

plumbs7
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Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights

#24 Postby plumbs7 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:51 pm

Thanks Allen for allowing g me to post this important subject on ur forrum . I've hated having to bring up on our f class showcase as we all just like to do is compete and socialise . As we prefer not get political . It's not been enjoyable sticking my neck out either ; it's easy just to roll over and not say anything and say " it's not going to affect me !"
As Dave said , with our ability to hit MOA or better up to 1000 yds it only takes lies and misdirection to put us up next as Dangerous snipers ! Which of coarse is nothing further from the truth!

This reclassification will do nothing to improve public safety ! The criminals will still be able to get their pistols or black market guns, with no cooling off periods , no background checks , no safety corse , no registration of their guns , no weapons storage or the near 12 months it takes at times to getting a weapons licence !
Less than 1% if violent crimes are committed with legal firearms!

So the above is just a witch hunt to score cheap political points to the ignoramuses who have never seen a firearm used lawfully . Just the criminals using theirs on the 6 o'clock news !

We had a firearms review here in Qld a few years ago and one of the stupid proposals was to ban thumb hole stocks , as they improved accuracy ! So stupid ! Another one was " if the weapon looked like a cat d gun eg rem 700 in a black tube chassis, it could be deemed by the appropriate officer , that it is a cat d " even though it was a bolt action!
The 338 lap mag has been restricted via property size , but they really wanted it banned as it turned normal law abiding hunters , into super snipers that could shoot 2 km away , very stupid! There are political agendas out there that are just not on our side ! The truth seems to get railroaded !
Hopefully we will have some common scence and certainty soon after November!

Honestly we have a lot bigger problem with domestic violence with over 60 ( not sure as I'm losing count )women killed by their spouses this year alone . That's nearly double killed at Port Arthur!
Thanks Dave for ur support too! Regards Graham.

macguru
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Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights

#25 Postby macguru » Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:24 pm

plumbs do you make this stuff up or do you read it somewhere ?
I mean I am not sure about the veracity of your comments

1."This reclassification will do nothing to improve public safety"
There is nothing concrete on the table, anywhere, is there ?

2."with our ability to hit MOA or better up to 1000 yds it only takes lies and misdirection to put us up next as Dangerous snipers"
Alarmist ?

3."a few years ago and one of the stupid proposals was to ban thumb hole stocks , as they improved accuracy"
that sounds like crap to me

4."The 338 lap mag has been restricted via property size"
where FFS ? not in NSW, is this true anywhere ??
id quod est

plumbs7
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Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights

#26 Postby plumbs7 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:59 pm

1 should I then say if it goes through as feared them it won't do anything to help public safety? There apparently has been a weapons advisory group been planing the above changes since 2012 so I have read !

2. Was just supporting Dave Mc in his comment !

3. This was happening in Qld with the weapons review around 2009 I think it was with the then labour government ! True! That's what started shooters union Qld !

4 this is also true about the 338 lap mag in Qld that's why I Own an Edge!

Sorry to upset you ! Wasn't my plan!
Last edited by plumbs7 on Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

plumbs7
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Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights

#27 Postby plumbs7 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:02 pm

In fact at the start of it with the 338 lap mag in Qld was 2000 acres . Then I think the property that u hunted on was 6000 acres . Thought it was common knowledge ? That was the start of muzzle ernergy limits at rifle ranges and calibre restrictions ! Look somebody can correct me but it ended up being for cat b with 338 lap mag in Qld. A property that is 6 km square that u hunt on and give a good reason too!

Edit: that's 36 km square ! It's not that much . Had been a while since I looked into it . Feel free to ring Qld weapons to see what size the property has to be and post ? But it was a fair size !

Jase PTRC
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Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights

#28 Postby Jase PTRC » Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:03 am

macguru wrote:plumbs do you make this stuff up or do you read it somewhere ?
I mean I am not sure about the veracity of your comments

1."This reclassification will do nothing to improve public safety"
There is nothing concrete on the table, anywhere, is there ?

2."with our ability to hit MOA or better up to 1000 yds it only takes lies and misdirection to put us up next as Dangerous snipers"
Alarmist ?

3."a few years ago and one of the stupid proposals was to ban thumb hole stocks , as they improved accuracy"
that sounds like crap to me

4."The 338 lap mag has been restricted via property size"
where FFS ? not in NSW, is this true anywhere ??



Macguru, in SA you can not even register a 338 lap mag or a 50bmg regardless of the land size or club you shoot in. They are not illegal but firearms branch will not approve a PTA for one. Have you not been watching the news? The media pushing so much garbage that a lever action shot gun classed as category A was banned from importation. Yet you dont think the government will pander to popular public thinking.

plumbs7
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Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights

#29 Postby plumbs7 » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:01 am

Special message from President Geoff Jones
We don’t let lies go unchallenged
You’d have to have been hiding under a rock not to have noticed the recent hysterical and irrational comments by those who hate our recreation and wish to strip us of our freedoms to own firearms despite our approval as a fit and proper person in the eyes of the police, in the wake of the Oregon murders and Parramatta terrorist attack. Some members of the media, select politicians and of course the anti-gun brigade (though I am reluctant to actually call them a ‘brigade’ because their numbers are so few) have issued misleading and divisive comments, none of which is based on fact or evidence and almost all are based on fear-mongering.

Half-truths and barefaced lies
Gun Control Australia’s chairperson Samantha Lee, for instance, has called for the striking out of junior firearm permits after a 15-year-old terrorist in New South Wales gained access to an illegal revolver and then shot and killed a police worker. How this makes sense to anyone, we just don’t know and we shake our heads in disbelief. When Ms Lee appeared on television in early October and said that criminal checks are no longer carried out to obtain a licence, nor are there 28-day waiting periods to obtain a licence or firearm, we took to the media ourselves to publicise her half-truths and barefaced lies.
The ignorance of some of the media on firearms and firearms ownership is becoming more and more apparent. The journalists either don’t know or choose not to question outrageous claims, such as Ms Lee’s declaration that ‘anyone can obtain a firearm’. In the context of legal firearms, as we all know, any applicant for a firearms licence must pass a criminal background check and be proven to be a fit and proper person, and then must conform to strict firearms security regulations once they do own a firearm.

Calls for bans
Greens anti-gun advocate David Shoebridge at least showed his party’s true colors when he said no-one should own or have access to a firearm unless it is part of their profession. Personally, I think he was holding back here, as the Greens are not even in favour of police officers or security personnel possessing firearms.
Federal Labor appears to have jumped on the bandwagon too, with Acting Shadow Minister for Justice Graham Perrett calling for the immediate banning of the five-shot Adler A110 lever-action shotgun, despite its conforming with current licensing regulations. He went so far as to say that the shotgun is illegal and is based on ‘new technology’, not that of 130-year-old mechanics.

Legal vs illegal
To put it bluntly, there is a lot going on at the moment and the SSAA at national and state and territory levels is busy countering the misinformation and continues to meet with government and bureaucrats responsible for the state and national laws that affect us. It is a peculiarity of our society that when an illegal firearm is used in a crime, such as that in the Sydney siege or Parramatta police shooting, there are calls to ban legal firearms. It is important to remember that the first terrorist attack on Australian police happened in Melbourne not that long ago, with the young perpetrator using a knife.

Member action
While we will continue to aggressively correct the facts and ensure that our Australian lifestyle and recreations are not adversely affected by kneejerk reactions, we encourage all members, when they read anti-gun claptrap or see or hear the same on radio or television, to contact those stations or write on their Facebook pages to let them know that their facts are wrong or that they have only hosted an anti-gun point of view and have failed to speak to the opposite point of view to create a fair and balanced story.
For further information and updates on our political action, please check the various SSAA National and state and territory websites and Facebook pages.

Website
Email
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You are receiving this SSAA National E-newsletter because you opted in via the SSAA website or during your SSAA membership application or renewal.


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DaveMc
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Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights

#30 Postby DaveMc » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:31 am

This came in from SSAA as one of the many emails we receive here at work re this issue but seems to have some fact about it finally.

SSAA gains clarification from Minister on lever-actions as NFA review continues
SSAA National has sought and gained immediate clarification from Justice Minister Michael Keenan on some points of contention surrounding lever-actions as the National Firearms Agreement (NFA) review continues. Despite some reports, SSAA National has confirmed with the Minister that there have been no discussions about re-categorising lever-action rifles. This was also stated in a face-to-face meeting with SSAA National CEO Tim Bannister at the Firearms Industry Reference Group (FIRG) last week, and reiterated in our conversations with the Minister’s office.
While we are aware there have been discussions surrounding the appropriate classification of lever-action shotguns through the Firearms and Weapons Policy Working Group (FWPWG) and consultations we have been involved in, the Minister also confirmed that these discussions are ongoing and we understand no decision has been made.
In further NFA news, Senator Bridget McKenzie has quizzed bureaucrats and Justice Minister Michael Keenan on the NFA review and what consequences it has for licensed firearm owners. The Victorian Nationals Senator makes no secret of the fact that she enjoys recreational shooting and actively supports the interests of Australian firearm owners.
Members should continue to contact their local political representatives to ensure our views are being heard, and we encourage you to read our submission which clearly expresses our views on the existing NFA and any potential changes. We remain in constant contact with Minister Keenan and his office, and will bring you any new and verifiable information as it comes to hand.

1) yes it is on the table as above. It is part of the NFA review and the government is considering the recommendations of the Firearms and Weapons Working Group. We have many politicians including greens and also the shadow minister releasing public announcements that these weapons are illegal and all should be banned etc etc - all false statements but as I said - they now have a voice and a vehicle to launch their thoughts with strong public sentiment after the two recent issues.

2) Only comment I will say is you mustn't talk to many people about your sport! It is a constant battle for me.

3) True - was on the table and battled down.

4) As far as 338 licensing goes. You need a "valid reason" for owning one in Qld. For target/sporting shooting there is only one range in Qld with a large enough template and you need an internationally recognised discipline. Otherwise you need a "significant property" and valid reason. Plumbs description of size is in line with my understanding but the police will not define it exactly except to say "significant". You need a description of terrain and feral animals you wish to shoot that need such a calibre. I have only seen one successful application. 50 cal in Qld you can forget altogether unless you can come up with a remarkable story for "need".

Andrew I suggest you do some homework before challenging like that and what happens in NSW is not a reflection of what is going on in all states. Be aware that this National Firearms agreement may loosen some laws in some states but tighten others - not all may be to your liking!


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