Queens Prize Procession Needs Discussion
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Queens Prize Procession Needs Discussion
I have said elsewhere, now that the Queens badge thing has been settled, let's stop the talking and get on with the shooting...
BUT , there are some other closely related things that need to be sorted out at some stage, and maybe the sooner the better, before they come to a head also. They relate to how the Queens Prize meeting processions are conducted. My information is that the F-Class Queens badge issue was originally triggered by the question of whether F-Class shooters should be entitled to march behind the chairing procession as former No 1 badge winners. And there is also the question of who get's the chair ride, which as far as I know, has remained the preserve of the TR winner.
In a way, its quite a complex challenge for the full bore community to work through and is going to involve compromise if TR and F-Class are to stay unified as most of us hope we will. On the one hand, the TR people can justifiably say that their equipment has stayed closer to the traditional military target rifles of old, and they can rightly say that they have an uninterrupted history of being the premier class at Queens events. On the other hand, F-Class entry numbers are probably going to exceed TR at all Queens events within the next decade, so they will have the voting numbers to change things to improve their status relative to TR.
Another issue which has surprisingly not yet been addressed is the safety aspect of the chair ride. As the TR population ages and reduces in numbers, the availability of suitably fit people to hoist the chair shoulder high is becoming a problem. The risk of serious back injury to the lifters, or possibly worse injuries to an ageing winner falling from that height needs to be looked at urgently IMHO. It is way out of step with current safety practices.
We have discussed these things on the forum over the years, but I don't remember any ideas which really stood out in terms of being acceptable to everyone. From memory we just ended up joking about some extreme ideas for an F-Class equivalent to the chair ride. I think it would be good to throw around some ideas about this. Maybe we need to "think outside the square" a bit? Is there a way that the procession and awards can be done which doesn't favour any particular class as the premier class?
How about having each of the disciplines with a part of the same procession to themselves? So the RO and band would lead, followed by a series of small groups with the winner(s) of each discipline, without any particular emphasis on the order of the groups. So for example :
1. RO
2. Pipe band
3. F-Std winner
4. F-Std B winner
5. TR winner (in chair?)
6. B and C Grade winners.
7. F-Open winner
8. F/TR winner
The RO would present each winner with a separate announcement, with no one winner being given special treatment. I haven't included former winners of any class, because my personal preference would be to dispense with this tradition. In the days when there were 500 or so TR entries, it would have been more meaningful, but nowadays, former No 1 badge winners are quite a high percentage of the crowd! The chair ride could remain a TR only tradition, but if so, needs a serious safety assessment.
That's just one idea to get you thinking. It'll be good to get some more. If we can come up with something we think would be widely acceptable, then the next step would be to put it to one of the more progressive S & T Queens committees to trial. It might even be a good thing to encourage the National Queens organisers to take the lead on this. My impression is the NRAA Board would now be more open to new ideas.
One important thing is to have a positive approach to this discussion. It is not an invitation to criticise TR. It is a request for ideas to help keep TR and F-Class united as the balance of numbers changes in the years ahead.
BUT , there are some other closely related things that need to be sorted out at some stage, and maybe the sooner the better, before they come to a head also. They relate to how the Queens Prize meeting processions are conducted. My information is that the F-Class Queens badge issue was originally triggered by the question of whether F-Class shooters should be entitled to march behind the chairing procession as former No 1 badge winners. And there is also the question of who get's the chair ride, which as far as I know, has remained the preserve of the TR winner.
In a way, its quite a complex challenge for the full bore community to work through and is going to involve compromise if TR and F-Class are to stay unified as most of us hope we will. On the one hand, the TR people can justifiably say that their equipment has stayed closer to the traditional military target rifles of old, and they can rightly say that they have an uninterrupted history of being the premier class at Queens events. On the other hand, F-Class entry numbers are probably going to exceed TR at all Queens events within the next decade, so they will have the voting numbers to change things to improve their status relative to TR.
Another issue which has surprisingly not yet been addressed is the safety aspect of the chair ride. As the TR population ages and reduces in numbers, the availability of suitably fit people to hoist the chair shoulder high is becoming a problem. The risk of serious back injury to the lifters, or possibly worse injuries to an ageing winner falling from that height needs to be looked at urgently IMHO. It is way out of step with current safety practices.
We have discussed these things on the forum over the years, but I don't remember any ideas which really stood out in terms of being acceptable to everyone. From memory we just ended up joking about some extreme ideas for an F-Class equivalent to the chair ride. I think it would be good to throw around some ideas about this. Maybe we need to "think outside the square" a bit? Is there a way that the procession and awards can be done which doesn't favour any particular class as the premier class?
How about having each of the disciplines with a part of the same procession to themselves? So the RO and band would lead, followed by a series of small groups with the winner(s) of each discipline, without any particular emphasis on the order of the groups. So for example :
1. RO
2. Pipe band
3. F-Std winner
4. F-Std B winner
5. TR winner (in chair?)
6. B and C Grade winners.
7. F-Open winner
8. F/TR winner
The RO would present each winner with a separate announcement, with no one winner being given special treatment. I haven't included former winners of any class, because my personal preference would be to dispense with this tradition. In the days when there were 500 or so TR entries, it would have been more meaningful, but nowadays, former No 1 badge winners are quite a high percentage of the crowd! The chair ride could remain a TR only tradition, but if so, needs a serious safety assessment.
That's just one idea to get you thinking. It'll be good to get some more. If we can come up with something we think would be widely acceptable, then the next step would be to put it to one of the more progressive S & T Queens committees to trial. It might even be a good thing to encourage the National Queens organisers to take the lead on this. My impression is the NRAA Board would now be more open to new ideas.
One important thing is to have a positive approach to this discussion. It is not an invitation to criticise TR. It is a request for ideas to help keep TR and F-Class united as the balance of numbers changes in the years ahead.
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Re: Queens Prize Procession Needs Discussion
Maybe something like the pope mobile would be good?
Sorry Alan, I know you are trying to be serious, couldn't help myself.
I guess the easiest form of elevated travel would be the back of a ute, which would have safety bars around(possibly something each club holding a queens could have stored for the occasion).
Winners from all classes could ride together to the presentation.
Sorry Alan, I know you are trying to be serious, couldn't help myself.
I guess the easiest form of elevated travel would be the back of a ute, which would have safety bars around(possibly something each club holding a queens could have stored for the occasion).
Winners from all classes could ride together to the presentation.
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC
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Re: Queens Prize Procession Needs Discussion
I read this thread just after Alan posted it and the first thing that went through my mind was pope mobile/golf buggy.
Then I thought that I may not be taking the topic seriously, but, when Tim mentioned pope mobile, a golf buggy may not be too far left field after all.
I am reasonably sure they would take three people so a parade of golf buggies would look quite dignified.
There are many golf links here in Orange and nearly every golfer has one so acquiring one would not pose a problem as there are golf links just about every where.
Would also be an asset to be used year round, electric powered so Green friendly, quiet and easy to drive.
Great to whip around the range putting up flags, etc.
Then I thought that I may not be taking the topic seriously, but, when Tim mentioned pope mobile, a golf buggy may not be too far left field after all.
I am reasonably sure they would take three people so a parade of golf buggies would look quite dignified.
There are many golf links here in Orange and nearly every golfer has one so acquiring one would not pose a problem as there are golf links just about every where.
Would also be an asset to be used year round, electric powered so Green friendly, quiet and easy to drive.
Great to whip around the range putting up flags, etc.
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Re: Queens Prize Procession Needs Discussion
Don't concern yourself with changing the TR parade in the chair, how they do it is many years of tradition, leave them to enjoy it.
I would appreciate the F class winners and other grades of TR being presented to the audience on arrival (simply walking in) in the parade and they should also be seated at the front as a group, pretty simple and not much to ask.
I would appreciate the F class winners and other grades of TR being presented to the audience on arrival (simply walking in) in the parade and they should also be seated at the front as a group, pretty simple and not much to ask.
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Re: Queens Prize Procession Needs Discussion
TOM wrote:Don't concern yourself with changing the TR parade in the chair, how they do it is many years of tradition, leave them to enjoy it.
I would appreciate the F class winners and other grades of TR being presented to the audience on arrival (simply walking in) in the parade and they should also be seated at the front as a group, pretty simple and not much to ask.
I generally agree with you Tom. My concern about the chair is genuine, that there are going to be serious accidents. When the chair was first used, the majority of carriers were probably under the age of 30. Changes should be made to suit the current situation. There are chairs around where the ride height is lower and more stable, and what about longer handles to allow more carriers?
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Re: Queens Prize Procession Needs Discussion
I think the same as Tom for a change.
The TR shooters have had their tradition for over 100 years and they still have the biggest numbers in a Queens.
In Canberra, they have started a new tradition with the 4 F class winners (F std A, F std B, FTR, FO) walking in with the F Class belt.
If F class is to be chaired in, then next there will be arguments as to WHICH F class gets chaired in and all 4 disciplines will be at each others throats.
If anyone else is to be chaired in, I think it should be the discipline with the next biggest entry numbers.
The TR shooters have had their tradition for over 100 years and they still have the biggest numbers in a Queens.
In Canberra, they have started a new tradition with the 4 F class winners (F std A, F std B, FTR, FO) walking in with the F Class belt.
If F class is to be chaired in, then next there will be arguments as to WHICH F class gets chaired in and all 4 disciplines will be at each others throats.
If anyone else is to be chaired in, I think it should be the discipline with the next biggest entry numbers.
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Re: Queens Prize Procession Needs Discussion
Am I being too optimistic?
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Re: Queens Prize Procession Needs Discussion
Brad Y wrote:Am I being too optimistic?
On 2nd thought, this will be a suitable alternative.
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Re: Queens Prize Procession Needs Discussion
No definitely not. Young Sebastian had too much of that for several years, and then look what happened, he didn't win a race in 2014....
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Re: Queens Prize Procession Needs Discussion
RDavies wrote:If F class is to be chaired in, then next there will be arguments as to WHICH F class gets chaired in and all 4 disciplines will be at each others throats.
This is indeed the issue and will be irrespective of what method of recognition is used.
TR recognizes the best of the best TR shooters & the direct equivalent would be to recognize the highest scoring F class shooter, irrespective of what discipline he shoots. An alternative of acknowledging Open, Standard & F/TR would tend to load up the forecourt & likely bore the punters stupid. Selecting one of the three by a predetermined formula would be as satisfying as a one day cricket match delayed by rain after the first team had batted. Note I haven't acknowledged 4 disciplines as Rod did. FS is a single graded discipline just as TR is.
I guess what I'm saying is that I haven't got an answer but I do recommend that we do think hard and long & canvass far and wide before we present NRAA with our wishes.
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Re: Queens Prize Procession Needs Discussion
AlanF wrote:No definitely not. Young Sebastian had too much of that for several years, and then look what happened, he didn't win a race in 2014....
At least it might make Rod beatable at some point....
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Re: Queens Prize Procession Needs Discussion
Alan has a point re safety -has'nt happened yet but would not like to be in that chair when it does.
The way Canberra handled it last year is really all that is required --only problem that I saw was they buggered it at the presentation by separating the TR from FC by some 10 metres or more.
What's wrong with everyone sitting together?
Vic did the same.
Looks rather pissy and begs the question " Have FC got B O or some exotic disease?"
Easter at Glenrowan is worse- They chair the TR winner, seat him/her up front, --no FC in sight either at the walk in or at the presentation.
C'mon people, get modern.
The way Canberra handled it last year is really all that is required --only problem that I saw was they buggered it at the presentation by separating the TR from FC by some 10 metres or more.
What's wrong with everyone sitting together?
Vic did the same.
Looks rather pissy and begs the question " Have FC got B O or some exotic disease?"
Easter at Glenrowan is worse- They chair the TR winner, seat him/her up front, --no FC in sight either at the walk in or at the presentation.
C'mon people, get modern.
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Re: Queens Prize Procession Needs Discussion
johnk wrote:...An alternative of acknowledging Open, Standard & F/TR would tend to load up the forecourt & likely bore the punters stupid. ...
I would consider that quite exciting compared with later in the presentation watching 30 or 40 people receive badges in the Queens, then most of the same faces for the Grand .
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Re: Queens Prize Procession Needs Discussion
Barry, cast your mind back to the WA Queens when we over there in the late 70`s with the State Teams event. The Queens winner bit the dust when the chair broke. It was nasty. Alan`s got a point and we are so much older now, and the young people are not joining our ranks. I tried the outrigger last week. I think I will go back to the to the stand. It was a fleeting youthful fantasy. The young people are attracted to scope shooting. Thats the future when we are gone. David.
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