Queens Badges for F Class

[DannyS]

Have received a reply from the QRA which sounds positive for Queensland F Class shooters. Thank you Andrew.

Hello Daniel,



Please be advised that QRA has not discussed the topic and in fact have already ordered Queen’s Badges for 2015 with an increase in FClass numbers.

The NRAA workshop minutes are still in draft in my opinion and haven’t been discussed by the QRA Board at this time.



I support the members of state associations giving feedback to their executives. To defend NRAA, even if they consider such a major change, they usually seek the approval of the states before implementing the change and it is also the responsibility of the SRAs to seek the general opinion of their members before giving agreement or disapproval. The discussion currently generated across the country will guide the outcome in my view.





Andrew Mayfield

President

Qld Rifle Association

[Barry Davies]

Yeah, well I don't remember being asked my opinion.
Anyone else remember being asked?

[DannyS]

Hi Barry, I don't know who in the VRA got consulted, obviously you and I didn't . Maybe the QRA work on a different system.

Cheers
Danny

[Barry Davies]

Have asked the question but not holding my breath.

[Pommy Chris]

The Queens badge is 150 years old, and the Telescopic sight was only invented a few years before that ie it was not exactly standard military issue. Queen Victoria instigated the Queens Prize in Great Britain when she put up a purse to encourage better marksmanship by troops in the post Boer War era as many of us know. I am sure if scope were the norm for troops then as they are now, then the Queens badge would have been always with scopes. You would not train a sniper of today with an old .303 more likely he would have a Nightforce on his rifle. I am not against target rifle or any f class, I am just pointing out how childish and silly this is to try to limit Queens badges just to target rifle when F standard, FTR, and F open all have there challenges and are all equally hard to shoot well.
At the weekend it was the Mareeba opm for example, I shoot FTR and there was no ftr at Mareeba so I decided to shoot F open with my .308 bipod ftr rifle. Over three ranges I only dropped 3 points and on the last range I shot a 60 with 9x's (600 yards). I won the range, but I was third in the grand agg. I shot the shoot of my life, in difficult conditions, but I was still third!! My point here is F open rifles for example are very accurate and some may say that it is too easy to be given a Queens badge with scopes and all the rest of the blah blah... BUT to win shooting open you still have to be an amazing shooter as the comp will be won on X's. The same applies to ftr and standard they both have their challenges and are no easier than target rifle. All F class, Target, standard and open should get there Queens badge, it is discrimination for them not too, actually I wonder where this discrimination stands legally, hmmm...
My 2c
Chris

[plumbs7]

Hi Andrew , thanks for cooking bacon and eggs the other day for us shooters at Crows nest . It's great to see the President get around a little to hear our concerns . At the end of the day that is what makes a good leader ! Regards Graham.

[BATattack]

The Queens badge is 150 years old, and the Telescopic sight was only invented a few years before that ie it was not exactly standard military issue. Queen Victoria instigated the Queens Prize in Great Britain when she put up a purse to encourage better marksmanship by troops in the post Boer War era as many of us know. I am sure if scope were the norm for troops then as they are now, then the Queens badge would have been always with scopes. You would not train a sniper of today with an old .303 more likely he would have a Nightforce on his rifle. I am not against target rifle or any f class, I am just pointing out how childish and silly this is to try to limit Queens badges just to target rifle when F standard, FTR, and F open all have there challenges and are all equally hard to shoot well.
At the weekend it was the Mareeba opm for example, I shoot FTR and there was no ftr at Mareeba so I decided to shoot F open with my .308 bipod ftr rifle. Over three ranges I only dropped 3 points and on the last range I shot a 60 with 9x's (600 yards). I won the range, but I was third in the grand agg. I shot the shoot of my life, in difficult conditions, but I was still third!! My point here is F open rifles for example are very accurate and some may say that it is too easy to be given a Queens badge with scopes and all the rest of the blah blah... BUT to win shooting open you still have to be an amazing shooter as the comp will be won on X's. The same applies to ftr and standard they both have their challenges and are no easier than target rifle. All F class, Target, standard and open should get there Queens badge, it is discrimination for them not too, actually I wonder where this discrimination stands legally, hmmm...
My 2c
Chris

It's "easier" to shoot better scores with more advanced equipment but when your competitors are shooting the same gear it's just as hard to win.

You look it and say TR shooters used to be affiliated with the military and used rifles similar to the ones used in service of the same era. As military and standard hunting rifles have progressed TR has not. Out of the classes now shot scoped f class rifles are probably a closer representation to current military equipment than what TR rifles are. I'm sure there were many black powder shooters who thought it was "wrong" to use a 303 and just as many 303 shooters who thought it was "wrong" to use a omark 308. Technology progresses and no matter how hard people hold onto the good old days taking away badges from the new members that hope to continue their traditions will not leave fond memories in the future.

[Cameron Mc]

It's "easier" to shoot better scores with more advanced equipment but when your competitors are shooting the same gear it's just as hard to win.

You look it and say TR shooters used to be affiliated with the military and used rifles similar to the ones used in service of the same era. As military and standard hunting rifles have progressed TR has not. Out of the classes now shot scoped f class rifles are probably a closer representation to current military equipment than what TR rifles are. I'm sure there were many black powder shooters who thought it was "wrong" to use a 303 and just as many 303 shooters who thought it was "wrong" to use a omark 308. Technology progresses and no matter how hard people hold onto the good old days taking away badges from the new members that hope to continue their traditions will not leave fond memories in the future.

Adam

I started range shooting in 1979. I can remember many of the older shooters then saying "we should still be shooting .303" . This was quite awhile after the 7.62 nato was introduced to TR.
I totally agree with what you say. We must move with the times......encourage new shooters and accept change etc...
Cam

[williada]

Chris, Adam and Cam you make excellent points. The original purpose of the competition was to improve marksmanship and using the best technology of the times for a practical application in the theatre of war.

Many of us remember signing the same paperwork as service personnel did with the Oath or Affirmation of Allegiance to the Crown when joining a rifle club which was sanctioned under the Defence Act for defence purposes. The reality is, the rules changed, civilian clubs are no longer sanctioned by the Defence Act because the training and skills were deemed surplus to Defence requirements. The times changed and so does the technology.

The essence and spirit that remains from bygone days with all shooting disciplines is marksmanship.

We are in a transition period if you could take the helicopter view because as more shooters skill up with the gear they use it will only be marksmanship that will separate individuals. The gear will standardize itself with perhaps the 7 mm becoming the new .303. People tend to gravitate to the best gear. Every Fullbore team I have been associated with, always tried to get the edge with technology and best practice.

The gear will sort itself out as more knowledge is shared and Adam's point is very relevant, we will have to become better condition readers to win. Alan F`s suggestion to enhance wind reading skills, is to practice, "Bisley" style. Maybe we will come a full circle if we really want to stick with tradition. A "Queen`s" badge should represent what remains of the essence of our competition - marksmanship, IMO.

[pjifl]

Just a bit of lighter history.

There were a few 'mandatory' shoots to be eligible for a Queens - and certainly for a Kings prize further back which had heavily subsidized ammo and even subsidized train travel to the shoot.

Usually involved snap shooting and the earlier ones running (walking) closer to targets, loading, firing etc.
Shorter distances.

Then it became - nod nod wink wink - we did that. Eventually was dropped.

Be hilarious to bring that back.

Oh yes - When Good Queen Vic opened Bisley she used the very latest in technology.

And BENCHREST style , too.

Peter Smith

[RAVEN]

We all shoot Full-bore and the Queens prize was awarded in a FULLBORE Competition
FULLBORE includes Target Rifle A B&C F-Class FO/FS A,B & FTR also would include Black Powder and Service Rifle
Are we to be a part of Full-Bore tradition or not

I’m not totally against creating our own tradition idea.

BUT I am against the concocted reason and the way it has been implemented.

A certain group of ppl seem to pick and choose what suits them and also distort the true history.
After 16+years it's a bit odd that the ppl in charge what to change it now

RB
http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.exploringsurreyspast.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/DSC_0868.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.exploringsurreyspast.org.uk/themes/subjects/sports/bisley/&h=290&w=400&tbnid=2GyRYTO5LLtXDM:&zoom=1&docid=EoUM0U2lpuH0EM&ei=xXnuVKaFBsyE8gWVtILwCA&tbm=isch&ved=0CDEQMygpMCk4yAE

[plumbs7]

With F class being more what the military uses ! One , can only wander if the defence force may come back as it was before? Would be great to have a defence force team competing against the civies ! My opinion only!

[RAVEN]

Defence personnel are discouraged from participating in any civilian shooting sports
Well that’s what I have been told.

[johnk]

Must tell Bruce Scott that.

[plumbs7]

Defence personnel are discouraged from participating in any civilian shooting sports
Well that’s what I have been told.

If that's true , I think our defence force are poorer for it ! What a great way to sharpen their wind reading skills! Or maybe they are already masters at it ? I don't know?

It would be good to see them in F/tr IMO ! ( getting of topic sorry).